Recipe wont fit.

[AGNoobie]

1st time post so plz bear with me. Still trying to understand the all grain process.
3rd all grain batch with Brewzilla 35L.

Having water volume issues and not knowing what to do next.

Have a recipe for a 1.074 IPA at 7.2% with 15lbs grain that I'm getting seemingly big differences in recipe and app volumes?

Recipe instructions.
Total 10.68 gal
Mash 4.68 gal
Sparge 6.0 gal
PBV of 8.04 gal. (Too much to fit)

App mash/water tool. Put in the variables, constants temps and losses etc and it says
Total 8.83 gal
Mash 7.02 gal
Sparge 1.81 gal
PBV 6.0 gal (Could easily do this)

Just trying to understand my volumes and am afraid that the boil volume is gonna be to to the top of the brewzilla.
Thanks in advance for any feedback.
AGNoobie
Rock Chalk !!

 

[IslandLizard]

Welcome to HBT!
Technically you're in the BIAB league, doing full volume mashing, or reserving some water for a small sparge (pour over or dunk).

Volumes are important, they must fit your equipment. When boiling, you need to reserve some headspace in the kettle, or you'd be spilling the excess.

This BIAB calculator may help getting some of those numbers:
https://biabcalculator.com/

 

[IslandLizard]

Some of the total water used will be trapped in the grain. You can't recover that.
When boiling the wort, you're evaporating water, thus condensing your wort. That's intentional, and good!
There will also be some trub left over in the kettle after transferring the chilled wort to your fermenter.

So Pre-Boil Volume (PBV) is always larger than the volume that goes into your fermenter (=batch volume).

 

[Coookies58]

Speaking to what IslandLizard is saying, what is your intended batch size (amount into the fermenter) and how much do you plan to bottle/keg? Every brew system has its obvious capacity limits and grain bill capacity.

 

[AGNoobie]

Speaking to what IslandLizard is saying, what is your intended batch size (amount into the fermenter) and how much do you plan to bottle/keg? Every brew system has its obvious capacity limits and grain bill capacity.

Planning to move 5 gal to fermenter. Thought might have a larger trub loss with that much grain and 7oz hops and try to get a cleaner transfer.
I get the limits of the system, I just wonder why I get two drastically different sets of volumes for the same recipe and variables (losses).
Thanks

 

[AGNoobie]

Some of the total water used will be trapped in the grain. You can't recover that.
When boiling the wort, you're evaporating water, thus condensing your wort. That's intentional, and good!
There will also be some trub left over in the kettle after transferring the chilled wort to your fermenter.

So Pre-Boil Volume (PBV) is always larger than the volume that goes into your fermenter (=batch volume).

I did take into account the losses when running volumes by hand and using limited losses in the app and came up with a "yeah it will fit, go ahead and brew" but if I didn't use the app and just went by the directions, I'd end up with a "sorry, you cant boil that much" and there's $50 down the tubes.
Why two seemingly different methods should get similar results.
I just thought two methods using the same variable would come up with two sets of similar results.

Guess the system I have occupies that sweet spot where a gallon or two of boil volume either way can make the difference between brewing and yardwork.

Thanks

 

[IslandLizard]

I just wonder why I get two drastically different sets of volumes for the same recipe and variables (losses).

Where did you get the recipe?

Recipes typically should NOT include water amounts, as they highly depend on one's system and process.
But a recipe should contain at least the following:

1. Percentages of each grain (and extract) used
2. Water (mineral) profile
3. Mash temp or mash schedule
4. Hops amounts and timing/temp schedule, preferably with %AA and IBU target(s)
5. Target OG (Original Gravity). This is the gravity after the boil, what goes into the fermenter. This is after top ups (if there are any).
6. Yeast (strain) used
7. Target FG
8. Maybe target %ABV, for completion, although that can be easily derived from OG and FG.

Then use your own recipe formulator of choice with your equipment profile.
Other information can be useful, such as color, mash pH, specific processes, etc.

Brewer's Friend has a free recipe formulator, and many calculators. It's run by the same people who run HBT.
There are others.

 

[AGNoobie]

I did take into account the losses when running volumes by hand and using limited losses in the app and came up with a "yeah it will fit, go ahead and brew" but if I didn't use the app and just went by the directions, I'd end up with a "sorry, you cant boil that much" and there's $50 down the tubes.
Why two seemingly different methods should get similar results.
I just thought two methods using the same variable would come up with two sets of similar results.

Guess the system I have occupies that sweet spot where a gallon or two of boil volume either way can make the difference between brewing and yardwork.

Thanks

Where did you get the recipe?

Recipes typically should NOT include water amounts, as they highly depend on one's system and process.
But a recipe should contain at least the following:

1. Percentages of each grain (and extract) used
2. Water (mineral) profile
3. Mash temp or mash schedule
4. Hops amounts and timing/temp schedule, preferably with %AA and IBU target(s)
5. Target OG (Original Gravity). This is the gravity after the boil, what goes into the fermenter. This is after top ups (if there are any).
6. Yeast (strain) used
7. Target FG
8. Maybe target %ABV, for completion, although that can be easily derived from OG and FG.

Then use your own recipe formulator of choice with your equipment profile.
Other information can be useful, such as color, mash pH, specific processes, etc.

Brewer's Friend has a free recipe formulator, and many calculators. It's run by the same people who run HBT.
There are others.

Thanks Lizard, I'll take a look at Brewers friend.
I need to find one that's helpful, easy to navigate and doesn't overcomplicate the process and stick with it.
Too much info doesn't help things for a beginner.

 

[jrgtr42]

That recipe is likely written for a traditional mash / sparge system (3 vessel.) By my seat of the pants / back of envelope math, for a 5 gallon batch, the mash sounds right, but the sparge sounds high for my system - I batch sparge, so for 4.68 gal mash (I'd probably use 5 gallons,) in my rig I'd expect about 2.5 - 3 gallons first runnings, so I'd batch sparge with enough to make my pre-boil, about 4 or 4.5. |You would use a bit more for fly sparging, so maybe that's where the 6 gallons comes from.

Now, if you're doing BIAB, that's a whole nother ball of wax - you want to mash with as much as possible, and do a drain- through sparge with the rest if needed.

IslandLizard has a point that it shouldn't include water amounts, but I would amend that to say that you shouldn't take the amounts written as gospel, but adjust to your own system and how you get best results. Treat that amount in the recipe as a starting point.

 

[WesBrew]

Looks like the top one is your typical 1.25 quarts of water per lb of grain for a mash tun. The second looks like a full volume mash with a light sparge. As noted above i’d use a calculator to figure water needed. Never from a recipe.
I don’t know your system but 1.25 ratio might be ok if you aren’t doing a full volume mash. It works for me but I use a mash tun. It might be a little thick for recirculating in your system. you also have add the amount of water it takes to reach the grain basket. 1.5 quarts per lb ratio is probably safer