Recipe modification

[timotb]

I want to modify my next cider (applewine) batch this fall for something softer and more pleasing to the general population's taste. Maybe even a little less dry if I can.

I press about 40 gallons of cider every year mid October here in NE Ohio. I add 5 lbs granular sugar and one pack of Red Star Campaign yeast. I try to get an even balance of Sweet, Sour and tart apples. I add yeast nutrient after about 6 weeks. I typically get a Alcohol content of 12-13%

I'm thinking of changing the yeast to something slower like an ALE yeast.

Any suggestions?

 

[gratus fermentatio]

You might try Lalvin 71-B1122 (Narbonne) yeast. It's a dry wine yeast, but it will metabololize some of the malic acid, this will be percieved as "softer." It will also keep your ABV in the same range. You could also do a malo-lactic fermentation, this will make it even "softer," tho you will lose a certain amount of tartness from the loss of the malic acid. Hope that helps. Regards, GF.

 

[ryane]

Look into Keeving, it is a way to naturally allow for a sweeter cider, it is done extensively in france to produce sweet sparkling ciders, youll have to order the enzyme though....

 

[timotb]

Thanks....might try the 71B yeast. Keeving sounds a bit complicated. Also, Im thinking of cutting the sugar back to about 2.5 lbs/5 gallons. Still welcoming ideas.

 

[ryane]

Thanks....might try the 71B yeast. Keeving sounds a bit complicated. Also, Im thinking of cutting the sugar back to about 2.5 lbs/5 gallons. Still welcoming ideas.

I make a cider each year that uses roughly 1# of lactose per 2.5gal for body and a very very light touch of sweetness, I also really like using nottingham yeast, as it gives off a very woody ester profile that blends well with apples and a bit of oak

If I were you I would even think about doing at least 5gal without any sugar to see how it turns out, another idea that Ive tried is to heavily caramelize some of the juice to make a darkened syrup to add back, it adds a lot of flavor and acidity

 

[timotb]

I make a cider each year that uses roughly 1# of lactose per 2.5gal for body and a very very light touch of sweetness, I also really like using nottingham yeast, as it gives off a very woody ester profile that blends well with apples and a bit of oak

If I were you I would even think about doing at least 5gal without any sugar to see how it turns out, another idea that Ive tried is to heavily caramelize some of the juice to make a darkened syrup to add back, it adds a lot of flavor and acidity

I was reading one of the stickies here. CvilleKevin suggests Nottingham yeast also. He also thinks that beginning SG should not go above 1.065. Mine always are like 1.08.

I tried no sugar last year....thought it was a bit bland. I have considered other kinds of sugars besides cane. Dextros and Lactose.....I just dont know where to buy these kinds of sugars....cane is still cheap.

 

[ryane]

I was reading one of the stickies here. CvilleKevin suggests Nottingham yeast also. He also thinks that beginning SG should not go above 1.065. Mine always are like 1.08.

I tried no sugar last year....thought it was a bit bland. I have considered other kinds of sugars besides cane. Dextros and Lactose.....I just dont know where to buy these kinds of sugars....cane is still cheap.

how was it bland, did it lack acidity or tannin? you can easily add either, you would be surprised what a bit of acid or tannin can do to a flabby cider, it really makes the fruit pop

what about my other idea of boiling down a portion of juice, say 3-4gal to a very small quantity and adding it back, this will have the same effect as adding sugar and will be add a concentrated flavor back in

I did a caramelized apple cider here, you can see how different the color was

 

[timotb]

Bland, I think by comparison to the 13%ABV "jet fuel" I normally get. For the last two years I did add just a pinch of Tannins with the sugar and yeast. Never short on acid.

The boil back concentrated idea sounds good... but dont we also concentrate the bad alcohols fusels, and methanols?

My thoughts at this point are to change the yeast to maybe 71B-1122 or Safale S-04, holding down the sugar to 1.065 beginning SG, stopping the ferment to something just above 1.000. This should give a ABV just under 9% Maybe back sweetening.

 

[emr454]

I think what he meant was to boil down/concentrate some fresh apple juice or cider, not fermented juice/cider, and add that to your mix to increase gravity.

It does sound like a nice experiment!

Eric

 

[ryane]

Bland, I think by comparison to the 13%ABV "jet fuel" I normally get. For the last two years I did add just a pinch of Tannins with the sugar and yeast. Never short on acid.

how does the jet fuel have more taste? all your adding is sugar that has no flavor of its own? How long do you wait till you drink it? Ive noticed that it takes at a minimum 12-14mos before the apple flavor really starts to poke through, and if you can wait 24mos its amazing stuff

The boil back concentrated idea sounds good... but dont we also concentrate the bad alcohols fusels, and methanols?

My thoughts at this point are to change the yeast to maybe 71B-1122 or Safale S-04, holding down the sugar to 1.065 beginning SG, stopping the ferment to something just above 1.000. This should give a ABV just under 9% Maybe back sweetening.

I was talking about boiling down fresh juice and adding that back in, boiling fermented cider would drive off all the alcohol and leave you with a bland flavorless drink,

71B is good but it will metabolize malic acid to lactic and soften the acidity, not always a good thing, but you can add some acid back in, Notty really does work very well in cider

Why not shoot for something around 7%abv using only caramelized juice, it will retain a lot more sweetness from the boiled sugars, and the higher the alc % the drier it will be no matter what you do

 

[Diver165]

When I made my last batch of cider I used 4 gal of store bought apple juice and 2lbs of dark brown sugar and and 1lb of corn sugar pitched some Nottingham yeast. It came out about 1.051 to 1.060 usually depending on the type of store bought juice. It fermented for 2wks then I racked it to secondary with another gallon of apple juice to bring it up to just under 6 gallons. I let it sit for another 2 weeks and then into my fridge for a week. It comes out with a deep amber color. When put in bottles and left alone for 2 weeks minimum it carbs up nicely. And just like wine it gets better with age.

It works for me. Everyone that has tried it has liked it. The only comment I get is that the stuff is dangerous. It is. It's real easy to over drink and end up wearing a lamp shade or stripping your clothes off.

 

[timotb]

This is a good idea ryane, I dont wait long enough. I make 40 gallons and consume it in a year. Ive heard this aging issue before, might try to save the last 10 gallons for next year and see if there is a difference.

I am considering the caramelized idea. Sounds good. thanks

 

[timotb]

Regarding Diver165's idea. Store bought apple juice? This has preservatives that retards fermentation I thought. Might have to test this first hand.

 

[Freezeblade]

Ale yeast, nottingham and s-04 both work awesome for ciders. I also suggest not using any sugar, just yeast and juice, adding back tannins or acids to taste.

 

[Diver165]

Regarding Diver165's idea. Store bought apple juice? This has preservatives that retards fermentation I thought. Might have to test this first hand.

Not necessarily. You can buy apple juice w/o preservatives. I usually buy White House or Mott's. I tried a no name Kroger (chain grocery store) brand Apple Juice for my apple beer.

Just gotta read the labels.

 

[lumpher]

i use wal-marts great value brand for my apple cider. 100% apple juice, no preservatives, and $2 a gallon...

 

[Kauai_Kahuna]

I have had some tasty stuff using store bought AJ, a couple cans of concentrate, (all no preservatives) a little sugar or honey, a little tannins from like 5 black tea bags, and using S-05 or S-04, or even WLP-300. They all ferment out pretty well, and I back sweeten with one or two more cans of concentrate.
I think I need to pick up another batch of AJ soon, getting the urge.