Recipe critique: Complex Baltic Porter

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nl724

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I am looking to make a robust/baltic porter. I don't want chocolate to dominate the flavor. I would like it to be toasty, roasty, creamy, smooth, and semi-sweet. I would also like to add hints of molasses, but I am not sure on the quantity. Here is what I have so far:

Batch size: 5 gal

8# 2 Row
1# Munich
8oz Crystal 60
8oz Crystal 90
8oz Flaked Barley
6oz Biscuit
6oz Chocolate
3oz Roasted Barley
2oz Crystal 120
2oz Special B

1/4 cup? molasses

Also I am not set on a hopping schedule either...any suggestion would be appreciated. I am not going for a hoppy tasting hoppy smelling beer.
 
Your recipe seems a bit overly complex. I'd pick one type of crystal and stick with that. I'd also up the chocolate malt a bit, especially since you have very little roast barley and no black patent. I've never really used molasses, so I can't speak to that, but I'd reccommend leaving it out until you brew a simple recipe you like. Once you have a simple base recipe you know works, you can start adding other ingredients. As far as hops, I use simcoe (bittering) and perle (flavor and aroma). The simcoe bitterness really blends well with the roasty flavors and balances maltiness without being overpowering.
 
Another suggestion for keeping it simple. Maybe 80% 2-row with some 10% chocolate and 5-7% crystal (only one type, maybe mid-range 60-80), and 2-3% black patent. I think that roast barley should be saved for stouts, and special b might not be what you are looking for in a porter. It is more of a raisiny flavor, and is amazing in Belgians. For hops, I have heard Galena is great with only a 60 min bittering addition to achieve the IBUs you want. The biscuit and munich will give it a little more maltiness, but it might be overshadowed by all the roasted grains, anyways. Just my .02

Jason
 
sorry missed the hoppy tasting hoppy smelling beer part...I would still bitter with somethign like galena or another high AA hop. You could then flavor and/or aroma with something like Fuggles or EKG, if you can find them. Still, roasty grains will overpower a good amount of the hop flavor, so don't waste hard to find and/or expensive hops in a porter

Jason
 
Thanks for the help so far guys...I appreciate it, and any more comments are DEFINITELY welcome!
 
Drop the mollasses, bump the Special B to a half-pound. Actually, I would probably cut out about half the speciality malts; there's a fine line between complex and muddy. Special B will add some real nice, complex, dark-fruity notes that should be nice. It might be a little bit light in terms of the total roasted grains.
 
the_bird said:
Drop the mollasses, bump the Special B to a half-pound. Actually, I would probably cut out about half the speciality malts; there's a fine line between complex and muddy. Special B will add some real nice, complex, dark-fruity notes that should be nice. It might be a little bit light in terms of the total roasted grains.

Will adding too much Special B overpower the roasted smoothness?
 
Special B will give it a dark, fruity complexity; raisens, plums, those kinds of flavors. A dark, kinda bittersweet maltiness. It's potent, you don't need much more than a half-pound. It should be pretty complementary to the roast flavors.
 
I'm with the_bird. Up the Special_B and Chocolate (or use some Black Patent), drop the crystal_120 (special_B is a dark crystal) and one of the medium crystals (they are pretty similar any ways). Just using a bittering addition is fine for a good stout or porter so thats a reasonable plan. Your original didn't look like it had enough roasted malts to be a porter.

Craig
 
Apart from the grain bill, fermentation temperature and yeast selection are two important parts of making a good baltic porter. Which yeast are you using?
 
I missed this the first time around, too. If you are really trying to do a Baltic Porter, then be prepared for a strange animal. It is very little like other porters. It's sort of like a big Brown Porter, but with more dark fruit charcter and complexity.

Don't include both Special B and 120L crystal. They are too similar here and, as BIRD said, will probably muddy each other up more than compliment each other. The 90L probably is fine, but I do not know how necessary it is. It could wind up contributing some nice toffee or nutty notes, though. The 60L probably is good for some caramel sweetness, which you'll need to balance out everything else.

I don't think you need any roasted barley in this at all, unless you are trying to get something roastier than a typical Baltic Porter. Even still, I would recommend more chocolate malt than any roasted barley, maybe a half pound or 10 oz. Chocolate malt will get you the roasty notes, but it will keep the beer rounder, where the roasted barley is sharper. In fact, try to find the Carafa Special (dehusked) malt or dehusked chocolate. That will work much better. Keep the black patent far, far away from this beer. It has no place here.

I highly recommend shifting your malt bill more towards Munich and away from pale malt. That will add some sweetness, as well as some bready and toasty notes. Really, I would go with all or nearly all Munich for the base malt. There is nothing wrong with combining light and dark Munich, either. If you don't like that much Munich, consider Vienna instead of pale malt, or maybe some Pilsner. This really is a continental beer more than a British one.

Take it easy on the hops, whatever you do. Let the dark malts and mild esters do the talking here. Keep the IBUs way down to about 40-50% of your OG, and only have the slighest bit of hop flavor or aroma, if any.

Ferment on the high side with a lager yeast or on the low, low side with an ale yeast. THe lager yeasts tend to work better here. Like I said, it's an odd animal.


TL
 
Tex, what would you think of using some pale chocolate in a recipe like this? Roasty notes without being too overwhelming? Obviously, using a larger percentage than with the "regular" chocolate malt...
 
I have so little experience with pale chocolate, I really don't know. I don't know that I like it, though. Baltic Porters are about deep, dark malt complexity, and it seems that pale chocolate will not bring that. I am having a very hard time imagining how it would turn out, though.

What you mentioned, though, is exactly why I like the dehusked chocolate or Carafa.


TL
 
Professor Frink said:
Apart from the grain bill, fermentation temperature and yeast selection are two important parts of making a good baltic porter. Which yeast are you using?

To be honest I was probably going to use just Muntons Active, but I can obviously change if its extremely important. How much the yeast selection have on the overall impression of the beer?
 
TexLaw said:
...Don't include both Special B and 120L crystal. ...

...I don't think you need any roasted barley in this at all, unless you are trying to get something roastier than a typical Baltic Porter...

...I highly recommend shifting your malt bill more towards Munich and away from pale malt...

TL

Here is a updated recipe:

Porter Recipe
4# 2-Row
5# Munich
8oz Flaked Barley
8oz Crystal 90L
8oz Crystal 60L
8oz Chocolate
6oz Biscuit
3oz Special B

3oz molasses
 
the_bird said:
Tex, what would you think of using some pale chocolate in a recipe like this? Roasty notes without being too overwhelming? Obviously, using a larger percentage than with the "regular" chocolate malt...


What about taking the chocolate bill from 8oz to 6oz and then add 4 oz pale chocolate? so a total of 10oz? I am kind of new to brewing, so I wouldn't know what kind of flavor to expect. What do you guys think?
 
nl724 said:
To be honest I was probably going to use just Muntons Active, but I can obviously change if its extremely important. How much the yeast selection have on the overall impression of the beer?
I believe Baltic Porters are usually lager yeast which is one thing that really sets them apart from the Robust Porters and Imperial Stouts. I don't think Muntons would be appropriate.
Craig
 
I agree on the yeast. I much prefer a lager yeast, fermented a bit on the high side here and watched somewhat carefully. This is a big beer, so your yeast has a lot of influence, and you do not want it to turn into an ester bomb. You can get a very little bit of esters from the yeast, but you really want to get it from the malts.

And, I meant to agree with Bird and recommend dropping the molasses.


TL
 
Here is the decided recipe for tomorrow...I made is simple and hopefully tasty

5# 2-Row
5# Munich
1# Caramel 90L
8oz British Chocolate
4oz Belgian Special B
2oz Belgian Black Patent
1 cup Molasses

1oz Fuggle (5.7%AA) @ 60 minutes

Predicted stats:

OG: 1.060
FG: 1.014
Color: 25-27 SRM
Bitterness: 26 IBU
ABV: 5.5%-6%
 
I like it. Molasses is a little odd though, as to me it doesn't seem to flaunt it's stuff until months after bottling. I think this will turn out good, but you may want to look into upping your bittering just a bit to balance out all the sweetness.
 
zoebisch01 said:
I like it. Molasses is a little odd though, as to me it doesn't seem to flaunt it's stuff until months after bottling. I think this will turn out good, but you may want to look into upping your bittering just a bit to balance out all the sweetness.


Do you think there are enough roasted malts? I am hoping for a sweet beginning and a roasty dry finish.

How many IBUs would you recommend?
 
Nl,

You don't really want a dry roast character. It's not appropriate for the style, leave that for a stout. Also, I would look at upping that grain bill for a OG above 1.070 at least. If you mash tun is the limiting factor I'd use some dme, if not then up the Munich to 8 lbs+.

For a beer like that I'd recommend 30-35 IBUs.
 
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