Recipe check, IPA

[tyrub42]

Hi everyone! I'm new to this forum; thanks for having me .

Anyway, I'm getting into all-grain brewing, and I'm still pretty new to it. I was wondering if you wouldn't mind taking a look at my next recipe and letting me know if anything stands out as being a big mistake. I'm basically going for a big, hoppy IPA with a substantial body to it. I'm brewing in a mountain house on a friend's equipment, so conventional dry-hopping is pretty much off the table. I've been reading about the hop tea method, so I've included that as an alternative to dry hopping here. My last beer turned out well, but I had to use pilsner malt (we didn't have any 2-row pale ale malt at the time), and the sellers rating on our dark caramel was way off (he said it was 90 ECB (34 lovibond), but 200g in a 5-gal batch left me with an amber-brown ale), so I'm guessing it's closer to 60-90 lovibond. To be safe, I'm using a tiny amount, since I'd rather it end up too pale than too dark. The house water is all mountain runoff, so we'll be using filtered water (bringing water cooler jugs up with us). Here's the recipe:

Grain
5500g (12.1lbs)-2-row
750g (1.65lbs)-white wheat
250g (.55lbs)-oats
250g (.55 lbs)-carapils
50g (.1lbs)-dark caramel

Hops (all citra)
-1oz @60
-1oz@5
-3oz@0
-3oz hop tea

Boil: 90 min
Mash temp: 155
Yeast: US05
Fermentation Temp: 64F
Fermentation will likely be three weeks (he's doing a saison, so he'll want an extra week...I'd prefer two with US05 in an IPA). I'll aim for fermentation at around 64, depending on what his saison needs. He has a fridge with a temp control box, so temp will be consistent.

How does this look? Is there anything here I am messing up? Are the oats too silly in here (thinking they'll play with the wheat, but never used them before)?

Thanks so much!!!

 

[Olaf_Deathbringer]

What's the alpha % of your hops? If you're going for a hoppy beer, you'll want a BU:GU of around 1. If you're not familiar with how this ratio works, there are threads describing it in detail. Basically, the ratio of IBU'S to Original Gravity points for an IPA should be around 1:1. If you estimate your OG to be around 1.065, you'll want around 65 IBU'S.

Your grain bill will probably produce a subdued malt, hop forward profile (2-row and wheat don't add tons of Maltin essential, your caramel addition is basically just adding color). If this is what you want, you're on the right track. If you want a little more flavor from your grain bill, ditch the caramel and add 10% of a 5-7L base malt (Vienna, Maris Otter, light Munich). This will add more of a grainy punch while also giving the beer more of an orange hue.

US-05 is cleanest at 68*F. At lower temperatures it tends to be more fruity(peachy, to be exact). This isn't necessarily bad, it just depends on what you want.

Make sure you add some gypsum to the mash as well. Without measuring pH you're pretty much just shooting in the dark, but I'd say 5-10 grams is enough to bring the pH down within range while also accentuating hop bitterness. Note: if you're using reverse osmosis water, add the gypsum AFTER the mash or your pH will be too low. RO water has a much lower ph than distilled or otherwise filtered water.

Last but not least, adding your bittering hop addition before the wort is actually boiling will greatly accentuate hop flavor and will make the Bitterness a bit smoother. This is called First Wort Hopping. Just throw your ounce of Citra in while the wort is still heating up.

 

[tyrub42]

Thanks so much for your advice!

Hops are 14.1 (2015 crop from Farmhouse, vac sealed and refrigerated since opening).

For this batch, I'm hoping to get a nice body from the wheat/dex/oats, but still keep the beer focused on the hops. From your comments, it seems like this bill would be appropriate for that.

I'll post my exact fermentation temp after brew day; a little fruitiness might compliment the citra pretty well, but again, it'll depend on my partner and how low his yeast can go (I'll likely end up closer to 68, since he's using saison yeast). Speaking of which, what's the highest you'd recommend running US-05, and what effect would temps north of 68 have on it?

Thanks so much for the gypsum recommendation; I'll make sure to add some. I can't be sure if my water was reverse osmosis, but I can say that the Ph is listed as 7+-1, so anywhere from 6-8, but likely right around 7. I'm guessing that this is not typical of RO water? Would you still recommend adding gypsum after the mash, or should I throw it in before?

Thanks for the bittering recommendation as well; I'll try that. Do you have experience with using hop tea? Do you think 3oz will work well (French Press, 180 for 1 hour, then repeat)?

 

[Olaf_Deathbringer]

14.1% is good, but one ounce may not be enough. It depends on your pre-boil gravity, which affects the utilization and isomerizarion of the alpha acids. I would recommend getting a brewing software like Beersmith or iBrewApp that can be used to estimate your IBU's based on the parameters of your recipe.

US-05 gets fruity at warmer temps as well, but it's a different kind of fruity. Green apples and hotter alcohols start creeping into the flavor profile. Not pleasant. I would keep it between 67-70F. After vigorous fermentation is finished (typically around 3-5 days), it's okay to let the temp rise a few degrees. This will make the yeast a little more active and encourage them to clean up any by-products they may have left in your beer.

RO water typically has a ph of between 4.5-5.5(due to residual carbon), and gypsum lowers ph. Since we want a mash between 5.2-5.5, adding gypsum to RO water will further lower the pH and negatively affect our mash. So, if you're sure your water isn't RO, adding gypsum during the mash is probably a good idea.

I've never used hop tea. I just dry hop. 3 ounces for a 5 gallon batch is generous and should accentuate it nicely, but could potentially contribute haze to the finished product. Not a big deal if you ask me. Don't go too hot on the tea, or you'll lose some of your aroma.

Disclaimer: my phone likes to autocorrect. Forgive any weirdness.

 

[tyrub42]

Awesome, thanks so much for all the help! I'll let you know how it turns out

 

[Bosh]

Would use a dry hop rather than a hop tea as well, if its hard to bottle the beer with hops floating around everywhere I'd just put them in a steeping bag, hurts the hops a bit but better than nothing.

 

[tyrub42]

I wish I could, but I won't be able to get back to the house during fermentation (it's a friend's wife's family's place, and about 2 hours away, so it's not ideal...kind of have to catch as catch can). It's basically either hop tea, or putting dry hops in for 3 weeks, starting from the very beginning of fermentation, which I'd rather avoid. The tea is more of an experiment than anything else on this batch, just to see how it works as a way to deal with this problem. Have you had a negative experience with hop tea?

 

[tyrub42]

Quick question. I couldn't get gypsum and I'm brewing tomorrow. Is there any way to use a small amount of starsan to lower the PH instead? If so, what would be the rough equivalent of 5g of gypsum? Not sure of any qualities starsan has besides lowering PH and apparently being unintrusive to flavor, so sorry if this is s stupid question!

 

[tyrub42]

Never mind, grain mill was lost, brewing is delayed. Will try to find proper gypsum

 

[marc1]

Quick question. I couldn't get gypsum and I'm brewing tomorrow. Is there any way to use a small amount of starsan to lower the PH instead? If so, what would be the rough equivalent of 5g of gypsum? Not sure of any qualities starsan has besides lowering PH and apparently being unintrusive to flavor, so sorry if this is s stupid question!

Don't use starsan to adjust pH. There's a water chemistry primer in the brew science subforum that gives general recommendations for water additions. If you start with RO water, a little calcium chloride and/or gypsum and maybe some lactic acid will get you pretty good results. You could also try spreadsheets like Bru n water to dial things in more.

The pH of the water itself doesn't really matter because it shouldn't have much buffering capacity on its own. The pH of the mash is what matters, and that is based on the mineral profile of your brewing water, what you add to the water, and the grains used.

If you want to get into water additions more, post a thread in the brew science subforum and experts in water chemistry can help.

 

[Olaf_Deathbringer]

Quick question. I couldn't get gypsum and I'm brewing tomorrow. Is there any way to use a small amount of starsan to lower the PH instead? If so, what would be the rough equivalent of 5g of gypsum? Not sure of any qualities starsan has besides lowering PH and apparently being unintrusive to flavor, so sorry if this is s stupid question!

If you're brewing with RO water, your pH will be too low already. I brew exclusively with RO water and have to add 5-6 grams of baking soda to my mash water just to raise it to the 5.2 range(and that's with light colored base malts...darker malts are more acidic and would lower the mash ph even further.) The gypsum and calcium chloride are added POST mash for flavoring only. The baking soda will add sodium to your brew which is good in moderate amounts.

In the batch I brewed yesterday (blonde ale, 4.4SRM), I added 6g baking soda to my mash water before mashing in. That's it. That got me to the 5.2 range and I got about 78% efficiency. After the mash I added another 5g baking soda to bring my sodium level to where I wanted it, and 6g each of calcium chloride and gypsum to get some chloride, calcium and sulfate into my brew. For reference, I was loosely targeting London's water profile.

 

[marc1]

If you're brewing with RO water, your pH will be too low already. I brew exclusively with RO water and have to add 5-6 grams of baking soda to my mash water just to raise it to the 5.2 range(and that's with light colored base malts...darker malts are more acidic and would lower the mash ph even further.) The gypsum and calcium chloride are added POST mash for flavoring only. The baking soda will add sodium to your brew which is good in moderate amounts.

In the batch I brewed yesterday (blonde ale, 4.4SRM), I added 6g baking soda to my mash water before mashing in. That's it. That got me to the 5.2 range and I got about 78% efficiency. After the mash I added another 5g baking soda to bring my sodium level to where I wanted it, and 6g each of calcium chloride and gypsum to get some chloride, calcium and sulfate into my brew. For reference, I was loosely targeting London's water profile.

How are you measuring your pH? What you are describing goes against the general wisdom here about water chemistry. If true, lots of people are way off in what they are doing. I'm wondering what's different about your mashes compared to others who adjust water chemistry and measure the pH with meters, because I don't think your results are common. Thanks for sharing, this is very interesting!

 

[tyrub42]

OK thanks! I was in a pinch yesterday, so was wondering if it would be better than nothing. Since the day was delayed, there's an entire street about 10 minutes from my job that is nothing but chemical shops, including several stores specializing in food grade chems (there's likely some shady stuff available to the general public, but hey, it's convenient at times like this haha). I was able to get a data sheet on the water we're using, and I don't know for sure that it isn't RO, but the PH is 6.5 so it seems like it isn't. For that PH, would you say throw 5g gypsum or CaCl in? or 10? Also, add it to the mash tun directly, or add it after it's all don't mashing? No rush on the answers, as I have a whole week now, and thanks a lot!

BTW any general preference between gypsum and CaCl, being that I don't actually know the chem analysis of the water? Guessing I'm just shooting in the dark there (most of the info was in Chinese, so wasn't able to get much info besides PH). Thanks!

 

[Olaf_Deathbringer]

How are you measuring your pH? What you are describing goes against the general wisdom here about water chemistry. If true, lots of people are way off in what they are doing. I'm wondering what's different about your mashes compared to others who adjust water chemistry and measure the pH with meters, because I don't think your results are common. Thanks for sharing, this is very interesting!

http://www.puretap.com/ph.htm

It's a semi interesting read, but all of my results are based on actual trial and error. Granted, I'm using ph strips (which I've heard can have a +-.2, so I'm shooting for "ballpark results"), but I couldn't figure out why every mash I did measured way too low(even with 100% pilsner malt). I was assuming a neutral ph, but I finally decided to measure the pH of just my water and it's right around 4.8. Given the nearly non existent buffering capacity of RO water, even one gram of baking soda should drastically raise the ph...but I've found that with my water it takes 5-6 grams to bring a 100% base malt mash (2.5-5L) up to the 5.2 range. More if I'm using darker malts of course.

 

[Olaf_Deathbringer]

OK thanks! I was in a pinch yesterday, so was wondering if it would be better than nothing. Since the day was delayed, there's an entire street about 10 minutes from my job that is nothing but chemical shops, including several stores specializing in food grade chems (there's likely some shady stuff available to the general public, but hey, it's convenient at times like this haha). I was able to get a data sheet on the water we're using, and I don't know for sure that it isn't RO, but the PH is 6.5 so it seems like it isn't. For that PH, would you say throw 5g gypsum or CaCl in? or 10? Also, add it to the mash tun directly, or add it after it's all don't mashing? No rush on the answers, as I have a whole week now, and thanks a lot!

BTW any general preference between gypsum and CaCl, being that I don't actually know the chem analysis of the water? Guessing I'm just shooting in the dark there (most of the info was in Chinese, so wasn't able to get much info besides PH). Thanks!

Honestly, you're probably better off using distilled water if you don't have a chemical analysis of your tap water. That way you can add equal weights of CaCl and gypsum and know for sure that your water is in balance.

It's not a matter of preference between the two, it's a matter of balance. If you only use one and not the other, it will adversely affect the finished product. You can go slightly heavier with gypsum to bring out the Bitterness, but don't neglect the chloride or you'll likely be missing the malt backbone that your beer needs. If you're using tap water without a water report, you're literally shooting in the dark. The best you could do at that point is just add one or both to your mash to adjust ph and hope you didn't overdo it.

You need to take a ph reading once you mash in, and then add your adjustments accordingly.

Bru'n water, Beersmith, and iBrewApp are good tools for planning your mash.

 

[tyrub42]

Thanks! It's not tap, but it's not distilled either. It's filtered drinking water (the kind you get in 5gal jugs for a water machine). My partner did get a water report, but as it's all in Chinese, I couldn't make sense of it, except the PH, which is 6.5. I'll try to get the rest of the report translated. Otherwise, I'll pick up both and add both (probably slightly higher on gypsum since it's an IPA, and conservative on both). I appreciate the help!

 

[tyrub42]

Quick update. Didn't get to buy any water additives, but aside from that everything went well. All brew-day stuff turned out exactly how I hoped. Only unfortunate issue is that the hop tea didn't work very well. Ended up with a great aroma regardless, but it would have popped way more with proper dry hopping. I just bought some kegging equipment, so in the future, I'll be able to 'keg hop' which should work great.

Thanks again for all of your help!

Best,
Tyler