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Quyzi

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Hey guys.. I have a few brews made and devoured, always from recipe kits. I thought I might take a stab at making my own recipe, but I'm far from proficient at it. I've read a bit about ingredients and what they do to the beer. I've been brewing stouts and belgian ales, thought I'd give an ipa a shot. This is the first time I've tried to come up with a recipe like this; please be gentle, though feedback would be greatly appreciated!

Code:
6.0 lb ldme
1.0 lb Crystal 20L

0.5 oz Galena (60 min)
1.0 oz Cascade (45 min)
1.0 oz Cascade (30 min)
1.0 oz Cascade (15 min)
3.0 lb ldme (last 15 minutes)
0.5 oz Fuggles (5 minutes)

2.0 oz Fuggles (dry hop 10 days)

Beersmith tells me it will have an aproximate OG of 1.066, FG 1.016. Again, never tried this before. Just looking to see what you guys think before I go get the stuff to brew it.
 

TTB-J

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That will probably be very very sweet because you have nearly 50% specialty malt. I would cut that back to around 10%. Also, you don't have any bittering hops listed (were some of those 15 minute hops you wrote down supposed to be 60 minute hops?). Bump some of those additions up to earlier in the boil so there is enough time for the alpha acids to isomerize and you don't end up with hop-flavored sugar soda!
 

FensterBos

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IPAs generally have a much higher original gravity; I would probably add another 3 lbs. of DME for 9 lbs. total and remove about 2 lbs. of the crystal. Personally, I would probably add another grain to the recipe to give it some more complexity; maybe something like an amber malt.
Here is the profile from BeerSmith about IPAs: http://www.beersmith.com/blog/2009/09/13/brewing-india-pale-ale-recipes-ipa-beer-styles/

Update: I would aim for 9 to 12 lbs. of DME/LME with 1 lb Crystal 20L and 1 lb Amber malt.
 
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Quyzi

Quyzi

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That will probably be very very sweet because you have nearly 50% specialty malt. I would cut that back to around 10%. Also, you don't have any bittering hops listed (were some of those 15 minute hops you wrote down supposed to be 60 minute hops?). Bump some of those additions up to earlier in the boil so there is enough time for the alpha acids to isomerize and you don't end up with hop-flavored sugar soda!
I thought Pearle hops were bittering hops. This is why I ask before I do. Also didn't realize that Crystal 10L was a specialty malt.


IPAs generally have a much higher original gravity; I would probably add another 3 lbs. of DME for 9 lbs. total and remove about 2 lbs. of the crystal. Personally, I would probably add another grain to the recipe to give it some more complexity; maybe something like an amber malt.
Here is the profile from BeerSmith about IPAs: http://www.beersmith.com/blog/2009/09/13/brewing-india-pale-ale-recipes-ipa-beer-styles/

Update: I would aim for 9 to 12 lbs. of DME/LME with 1 lb Crystal 20L and 1 lb Amber malt.
I might have trouble adding that much extract, I can only boil about 2.5 gallons at a time, unfortunately.



9 Lb XLDME
1 Lb Crystal 20L
1 Lb Amber Malt

0.50 oz Pearle hops (60 minutes)
0.50 oz Ahtanum hops (15 minutes)
0.50 oz Ahtanum hops (15 minutes)
0.50 oz Northern Brewer hops (15 minutes)
0.50 oz Northern Brewer hops (15 minutes)
0.25 oz Fuggles hops (5 minutes)

Using Wyeast American Ale #1056 yeast.
 

FensterBos

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I'm pretty sure that I've done 9+ lbs. of LME in a partial boil (about 2.5 gallons) and it came out fine. I've actually split the additions into two parts (first 15 minutes; last 15 minutes). Just make sure that you stir so none of the extract gets burnt on the bottom of the pot.
Unless your main issue has to do with not being able to handle the total volume of 2.5 gallons of water and the additional DME/LME.
 
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Quyzi

Quyzi

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I'm pretty sure that I've done 9+ lbs. of LME in a partial boil (about 2.5 gallons) and it came out fine. I've actually split the additions into two parts (first 15 minutes; last 15 minutes). Just make sure that you stir so none of the extract gets burnt on the bottom of the pot.
Unless your main issue has to do with not being able to handle the total volume of 2.5 gallons of water and the additional DME/LME.
Not sure I understand how adding 4 pounds of grains can make sweeter wort than using 9 pounds of extract. I've got a 4 gallon pot; it should be ok, now that I think about it.
 

Draken

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Quyzi said:
Not sure I understand how adding 4 pounds of grains can make sweeter wort than using 9 pounds of extract. I've got a 4 gallon pot; it should be ok, now that I think about it.
The specialty grains create more unfermentable sugars than other grains. So you end up with a sweeter wort. Also for bittering you get more ibus the longer the hops boil, you lose the flavor and aroma though. So add in some hops at the beginning of the boil to get the bitterness the. Dump in some 30 and 15 minute additions for flavor and possibly some 5 and flame out hops for aroma. Also think about holding some hops for dry hopping.
 

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Not sure I understand how adding 4 pounds of grains can make sweeter wort than using 9 pounds of extract. I've got a 4 gallon pot; it should be ok, now that I think about it.

It's the fact that the 4 lbs of grain are crystal malt. For IPA's and hoppy pales I personally like a 5% ratio for the crystal/caramel.
As others said you definitely need some bittering additions there - e.g. 60 minutes. It's the timing that makes it the bittering addition, not the variety of hops (although some varieties are typically used more for bittering than others).

Edit : type too slow, Draken beat me to it!
 

Yooper

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9 Lb XLDME
1 Lb Crystal 20L
1 Lb Amber Malt

0.50 oz Pearle hops (60 minutes)
0.50 oz Ahtanum hops (15 minutes)
0.50 oz Ahtanum hops (15 minutes)
0.50 oz Northern Brewer hops (15 minutes)
0.50 oz Northern Brewer hops (15 minutes)
0.25 oz Fuggles hops (5 minutes)

Using Wyeast American Ale #1056 yeast.
That's better! But what are you trying to make? Do you want an American India pale ale with lots of hops nose, or something else? That will help us get you where you need to go.

If you want an IPA with those ingredients, here's a good shot at it:

9 Lb XLDME (add 6 pounds of this at the end of the boil)
1 Lb Crystal 20L
(leave out the amber malt- must be mashed)

2.00 oz Pearle hops (60 minutes) (You need more than .5 oz to counteract 9 pounds of malt!)
0.50 oz Northern Brewer hops (15 minutes)
0.50 oz Ahtanum hops (10 minutes)
0.50 oz Northern Brewer hops (5 minutes)
0.50 oz Ahtanum hops (0 minutes)

Dryhop with 1 ounce of both late hops.

That said- I don't like that combination of hops very much. Northern Brewer hops are sort of woody, and minty. I think you'd be happier reworking the recipe with better IPA-type hops like cascade, amarillo, centennial, and so on.
 

Draken

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Speaking of hops you might want to try a brew using just one variety. That way you get a good feel for its characteristics. Look at NB they have a great chinook IPA. You could also consider doing straight ahtanum. I am sure there are others, I've personally brewed IPA batches using just those hence why I called them out.
 
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Quyzi

Quyzi

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That's better! But what are you trying to make? Do you want an American India pale ale with lots of hops nose, or something else? That will help us get you where you need to go.

If you want an IPA with those ingredients, here's a good shot at it:

9 Lb XLDME (add 6 pounds of this at the end of the boil)
1 Lb Crystal 20L
(leave out the amber malt- must be mashed)

2.00 oz Pearle hops (60 minutes) (You need more than .5 oz to counteract 9 pounds of malt!)
0.50 oz Northern Brewer hops (15 minutes)
0.50 oz Ahtanum hops (10 minutes)
0.50 oz Northern Brewer hops (5 minutes)
0.50 oz Ahtanum hops (0 minutes)

Dryhop with 1 ounce of both late hops.

That said- I don't like that combination of hops very much. Northern Brewer hops are sort of woody, and minty. I think you'd be happier reworking the recipe with better IPA-type hops like cascade, amarillo, centennial, and so on.
I more or less picked those ingredients at random, based on what the description of them was on homebrewing.org. I'm interested in something hoppy and delicious :) That doesn't help much does it.. I suppose what I'm trying to make is a good American IPA. I don't have the equipment to do an all grain yet, unfortunately.
 

djfriesen

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Popular American IPA hops include, but are not limited to, Cascade, Simcoe, Centennial, Amarillo, Citra, Falconer's Flight, and Chinook. But as many varieties as there are out there, you'll find that many different ideas on what makes a good IPA hop. My advice would be to research a commercial offering you enjoy and try to emulate the hops you find there. If you really want to start learning about hop profiles, start doing SMaSH brews, using a single malt variety and a single hop variety (e.g. 2-row Pale Malt and Cascade) , in order to experience what the individual ingredients bring to the table.
 

Yooper

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I more or less picked those ingredients at random, based on what the description of them was on homebrewing.org. I'm interested in something hoppy and delicious :) That doesn't help much does it.. I suppose what I'm trying to make is a good American IPA. I don't have the equipment to do an all grain yet, unfortunately.
I like "hoppy and delicious" too! How about checking out our recipe database, here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f69/ to see if any recipe that one of us has posted strikes your fancy? We can easily help you convert it to extract, so that's not a problem. You can see which hops are commonly used in American IPAs and see which recipes people like.
 

TTB-J

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I thought Pearle hops were bittering hops. This is why I ask before I do.
Perle is probably better used as an aroma variety, but it can be used for bitterness if you have your heart set on it. Typical bittering hops include Chinook, Columbus, and Magnum - they all share a similar characteristic: high alpha acid content. The isomerization of alpha acids during the boil is what gives your beer bitterness, and ideal bittering hops have high alpha acid content so you don't have to use a ton of them to impart the bitterness level that you want. Also, look for hops that are said to impart a "clean" bitterness, as you want to be able to carefully control the flavor you get from hops with your later additions.

All of that being said, I was actually referring to the fact that in your original post all of your hop additions were listed as 15 minutes or later in your boil. You need to boil hops for at 60 minutes to maximize alpha acid isomerization, so all of the hops that you add later in the boil won't add that much to the perceived bitterness of your beer because they are only being boiled for 15 minutes or so. The hops you add towards the end of the boil will impart flavor and aroma by releasing their essential oils into your wort. You corrected that the second time around by bumping your Perle addition back to a full 60 minute addition, which is good. As Yooper said, though, you'll need more than .5 oz of bittering hops at the beginning to get a strong perceived bitterness that will match the IPA style. And, considering the fact that you're making a pretty big beer with all of that extract, you will need even more to make the bitterness really come through.

One last thing - you said that you wanted something "hoppy and delicious" (with you all the way there), but when you say "hoppy" are you referring to the strong bitter finish or to the flavor and aroma of hops? Some people use it interchangeably for both, but knowing which one you want (or both) will help us guide you a little better on how to space out the hop additions.
 
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Quyzi

Quyzi

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I like "hoppy and delicious" too! How about checking out our recipe database, here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f69/ to see if any recipe that one of us has posted strikes your fancy? We can easily help you convert it to extract, so that's not a problem. You can see which hops are commonly used in American IPAs and see which recipes people like.
That is probably a better idea than crafting one from random ingredients and hoping for the best. I am going to give this one last shot before I do that, hopefully taking into account the advice from you guys.


Code:
6.0 lb ldme
1.0 lb Crystal 20L

0.5 oz Galena (60 min)
1.0 oz Cascade (45 min)
1.0 oz Cascade (30 min)
1.0 oz Cascade (15 min)
3.0 lb ldme (last 15 minutes)
0.5 oz Fuggles (5 minutes)

2.0 oz Fuggles (dry hop 10 days)
I spent a great deal of time reading about what hops have what characteristics. So, hows this look?
 

40watt

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What's wrong with brewing kits or other proven recipes until you have more experience. Know your process, know your equipment, and be able to do a full boil. How are you to know if you have a good recipe, without having things locked down in such a way that you can achieve consistent results.

Relax. It won't take that long. Just do a lot of reading and podcast listening.

Just my .02.
 
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Quyzi

Quyzi

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What's wrong with brewing kits or other proven recipes until you have more experience. Know your process, know your equipment, and be able to do a full boil. How are you to know if you have a good recipe, without having things locked down in such a way that you can achieve consistent results.

Relax. It won't take that long. Just do a lot of reading and podcast listening.

Just my .02.
Nothing wrong with brewing kits. It just seems like I'm doing a lot more reading than brewing. I learned a lot of other things by trial and error. Seems like error in this case is still a drinkable brew, in most cases.
 

william_shakes_beer

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OP Please clarify your hops schedule. When I describe a hops schedule as:

Fuggles 1 oz 60 minutes
Hallertau 1 oz 15 minutes
Hallertau 1 oz flameout

What I mean is: put 1 oz fuggles hops into the kettle, set timer for 60 minutes
when the timer reads 15 minutes remaining, add 1 oz hallertau
when the timer dings, turn off the kettle and add 1 oz hallertau.

Your hops schedule suggests only a 15 minute boil. I assume your really mean:

0.50 oz Ahtanum hops (80 minutes)
0.50 oz Ahtanum hops (65 minutes)
0.50 oz Northern Brewer hops (50 minutes)
0.50 oz Northern Brewer hops (35 minutes)
0.50 oz Pearle hops (20 minutes)
0.25 oz Fuggles hops (5 minutes)

True?

You don't get bittering until the hops are boiled for 45 to 60 minutes . Most hops do not benefit from a boil longer than 60 minutes, as very little alpha acid ( bitering acid) is extracted beyond that point.
 
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Quyzi

Quyzi

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OP Please clarify your hops schedule. When I describe a hops schedule as:

Fuggles 1 oz 60 minutes
Hallertau 1 oz 15 minutes
Hallertau 1 oz flameout

What I mean is: put 1 oz fuggles hops into the kettle, set timer for 60 minutes
when the timer reads 15 minutes remaining, add 1 oz hallertau
when the timer dings, turn off the kettle and add 1 oz hallertau.

Your hops schedule suggests only a 15 minute boil. I assume your really mean:

0.50 oz Ahtanum hops (80 minutes)
0.50 oz Ahtanum hops (65 minutes)
0.50 oz Northern Brewer hops (50 minutes)
0.50 oz Northern Brewer hops (35 minutes)
0.50 oz Pearle hops (20 minutes)
0.25 oz Fuggles hops (5 minutes)

True?

You don't get bittering until the hops are boiled for 45 to 60 minutes . Most hops do not benefit from a boil longer than 60 minutes, as very little alpha acid ( bitering acid) is extracted beyond that point.
I realized that not long ago. I've since changed the recipe entirely. Using different hops and a correct hop schedule.

Code:
6.0 lb ldme
1.0 lb Crystal 20L

0.5 oz Galena (60 min)
1.0 oz Cascade (45 min)
1.0 oz Cascade (30 min)
1.0 oz Cascade (15 min)
3.0 lb ldme (last 15 minutes)
0.5 oz Fuggles (5 minutes)

2.0 oz Fuggles (dry hop 10 days)
 

TTB-J

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If it were me, I would just make that Galena addition a 1.0 oz addition and skip the 45 and 30 minute Cascade additions, opting to put them in at 15, 10, and 5 minutes remaining in the boil. The drop the .05 oz of fuggles in right when you cut the flame and start to chill. That period betwen 45 minutes and 15 minutes left in the boil is kind of a no-man's land, most essential oils extracted during that time will be boiled off and won't impart any noticeable flavor or aroma and you won't get very good isomerization in that short of a period, meaning you won't be maximizing the bitterness you get out of those hops.
 

chickypad

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If it were me, I would just make that Galena addition a 1.0 oz addition and skip the 45 and 30 minute Cascade additions, opting to put them in at 15, 10, and 5 minutes remaining in the boil.
+1
I never do 45 min additions and rarely 30 min. I would also suggest if you are going for an American IPA to change those Fuggles additions to something else (cascade, amarillo, centennial, etc. as others have suggested). Also probably want to up the DME back to 7-8 lbs. Those plus TTB 's suggestions should get you an American IPA.
:mug:

Edit: Just saw you have a late addition there of DME so you are already at 9 lbs.
 

Yooper

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I realized that not long ago. I've since changed the recipe entirely. Using different hops and a correct hop schedule.

Code:
6.0 lb ldme
1.0 lb Crystal 20L

0.5 oz Galena (60 min)
1.0 oz Cascade (45 min)
1.0 oz Cascade (30 min)
1.0 oz Cascade (15 min)
3.0 lb ldme (last 15 minutes)
0.5 oz Fuggles (5 minutes)

2.0 oz Fuggles (dry hop 10 days)
As was mentioned, there are too many hop additions prior to 20 minutes left in the boil, which will make a bitter beer, and not enough hops additions later in the boil.

Fuggles are an "earthy" English hop that may go well with cascade, but if you want to make an IPA or other hoppy beer, the hops have to go in later in the boil, with enough bittering to balance the beer. Fuggles taste very dirty to me (like soil) but some people like them. I would probably consider dryhopping with some cascade.

I'd change the hopping to something more like this:

0.5 oz Galena (60 min) (or bittering to 40 IBUs here)
1.0 oz Cascade (15 min)
1.0 oz Cascade (5 min)
0.5 oz Fuggles (5 minutes)
1.0 oz Cascade (0 min)
1.0 oz Fuggles (dry hop 5-7 days)
1.0 oz cascade (dryhop 5-7 days)
 
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Quyzi

Quyzi

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As was mentioned, there are too many hop additions prior to 20 minutes left in the boil, which will make a bitter beer, and not enough hops additions later in the boil.

Fuggles are an "earthy" English hop that may go well with cascade, but if you want to make an IPA or other hoppy beer, the hops have to go in later in the boil, with enough bittering to balance the beer. Fuggles taste very dirty to me (like soil) but some people like them. I would probably consider dryhopping with some cascade.

I'd change the hopping to something more like this:

0.5 oz Galena (60 min) (or bittering to 40 IBUs here)
1.0 oz Cascade (15 min)
1.0 oz Cascade (5 min)
0.5 oz Fuggles (5 minutes)
1.0 oz Cascade (0 min)
1.0 oz Fuggles (dry hop 5-7 days)
1.0 oz cascade (dryhop 5-7 days)
There are a lot of great ideas in this thread. I'll give your recommendation a shot, Yooper, once I brew your dead guy clone. :) which I intend to do soon. Thank you for all the good information, you guys.
 
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