Mixed-Fermentation Sour Beer Really Easy Fruit Sour

[Gnomebrewer]

You'll need about 15-17L of total mash water depending on what you expect to lose in the boil (BrewFather says I'd need 14.96L but I only boil for 30 minutes).

This is a 15 min boil, so 13 to 15 litres should do it for 11-12 litres into the fermenter.

 

[TwogunRocky]

Thanks lads,
Yes I love sours so it's a no brainer me starting on one like this, couple of things.... I ordered my grain precrushed in 500g bags (4xpils 2xwheat 1xoats ) hoping to get two brews going by the values in gnomebrewer's recipe, so if I were to use the original grain volumes of 2.2lb pils, 1.1lb wheat etc, how much would I reduce the water volume by( ⅓ to 8-10 litres instead of 13-15?) to get 1.045 @ approx 75% efficiency?, The most important aspect is the quality and not the final amount in the fv, it'll leave me with identical grain to do another brew for comparison and adjustments.
Just one other thing if you be so kind, the mash temp and length.... Ive read so much but just need a starting point, is 66°c mash (73°c strike water, maybe less as not much grain) for 1hour suitable for these types of grains?... also sparge water temp is very important so I've read to extract the remaining sugars and not tannins, general consensus is not to exceed 77°c with that.... If indeed I do sparge, but probably do full volume anyway. I will add if necessary 1/200g sugar to hit gravity if needed as I've read the Philly sour yeast( which I'm using ) greatly benefits from simple sugars for souring, not aware of this goodbelly stuff here in England, or an equivalent.
Appreciate your time and thoughts

 

[Drewch]

I don't sparge; I just squeeze the bag. For this recipe with a 15-min, BrewFather says start with ~13L & strike at ~70C.

I just pitched my fourth batch with PhillySour, and say go with the sugar idea. That grain bill plus 200g of table sugar should get you to about 1.038 OG.

 

[marc1]

Thanks lads,
Yes I love sours so it's a no brainer me starting on one like this, couple of things.... I ordered my grain precrushed in 500g bags (4xpils 2xwheat 1xoats ) hoping to get two brews going by the values in gnomebrewer's recipe, so if I were to use the original grain volumes of 2.2lb pils, 1.1lb wheat etc, how much would I reduce the water volume by( ⅓ to 8-10 litres instead of 13-15?) to get 1.045 @ approx 75% efficiency?, The most important aspect is the quality and not the final amount in the fv, it'll leave me with identical grain to do another brew for comparison and adjustments.
Just one other thing if you be so kind, the mash temp and length.... Ive read so much but just need a starting point, is 66°c mash (73°c strike water, maybe less as not much grain) for 1hour suitable for these types of grains?... also sparge water temp is very important so I've read to extract the remaining sugars and not tannins, general consensus is not to exceed 77°c with that.... If indeed I do sparge, but probably do full volume anyway. I will add if necessary 1/200g sugar to hit gravity if needed as I've read the Philly sour yeast( which I'm using ) greatly benefits from simple sugars for souring, not aware of this goodbelly stuff here in England, or an equivalent.
Appreciate your time and thoughts

You can also sparge with room temp water. It takes longer to bring to a boil afterwards, but doesn't involve heating more water beforehand.

Also, this thread is about mixed fermentation sour beer (with bacteria), not lactic acid producing yeast.

There's a big thread on Philly Sour here:

Any Lallemand Philly Sour feedback or experience to share?

I am about to brew a Gose using this innovative new and innovative yeast (purchased from Label Peelers a few days ago). I have read the Lallemand information sheet and see the optimum temperature as 67F. I also plan to use their yeast pitching calculator, which seems to favor less than the full...

www.homebrewtalk.com

You might get better feedback there (specifically on fermentation) because it will be more on topic.

 

[TwogunRocky]

Thanks Drewch,
Grains & yeast arrived today so I'm gonna go on the lower volume side of things, probably 11 litres no sparge and see where I end up.... Rather overshoot the gravity and be able to liquor back than thin it with more sugar.
Thanks for your comments marc1, I've read that thread entirely by the way.... my questions to the OP have nothing to do with fermentation, I am concerned with recipe, volumes, temps & time.

Thanks lads

 

[JeffersonStateBrewing]

The rest of the process is the same (including using a half dose of sour-pitch).

Half dose? Is that half of the package is half of the original recipe meaning only a half gram? Or did you mean 1gram as listed in post #1? Sorry if this has been addressed already I am only on page 4 of this thread. Little more reading to go.

This looks interesting and I intend to try it pretty soon. Gotta source some fruit!

Thanks in advance

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Half dose? Is that half of the package is half of the original recipe meaning only a half gram? Or did you mean 1gram as listed in post #1? Sorry if this has been addressed already I am only on page 4 of this thread. Little more reading to go.

This looks interesting and I intend to try it pretty soon. Gotta source some fruit!

Thanks in advance

1g per 5 gallon of beer. It's half the dose of the packet instructions. I now use half that again (0.5g per 5 gallon batch). I think the instructions/recommended pitch rate is more targeted at kettle souring, where the souring needs to happen quickly (eg overnight). Co-pitching with yeast means it has more time to do it's thing, so a smaller pitch is needed.

 

[JeffersonStateBrewing]

Do you believe that a sour starter is necessary? I am a total n00b with sour stuff and reading as much as I can to get the feel of knowing a little something.

I have always made yeast staters, always. And I will do so for this recipe as well. However I am wondering if making a sour starter might give it too much of an advantage and beat out the s-05 (not certain if I will stick with the s-05 or go with a different liquid yeast option yet) competition rendering this way too sour?

Or should I make a starter using the s-05 and sour pitch together so that they grow side by side to reduce the 'competition'?

I have never had a dry pitch yeast actually work as advertised before. I was originally taught to brew using a large healthy starter so that is how I have always done it.

Brainstorming before brew day. Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks

 

[Gnomebrewer]

A sour starter isn't necessary if you use the lallemand powder. If you used probiotic pills, it's worth making a very small starter to check that the Lactobacillus is alive.

 

[Drewch]

1g per 5 gallon of beer.

Wow! I've been doing 1g per liter based on Sui Generis's blog post (1 million cells per ml and my own math using on Lallemand's quoted CFUs / g of PhillySour) — with pretty good results.

 

[1brewdon]

INGREDIENTS:
2/3 Pilsner malt. 1/3 Wheat malt. Aim for an OG around 1.045.
No hops.


Looking at several sour beer recipes, I see people using several different types of wheat malt. I see a lot of white wheat. Anyone use red wheat? Any opinions on that?

Also, someone remind me what amount of rice hulls to keep me from spending the whole day tending my spare.

Thanks,

The White Wheat has a larger kernel size. Some people prefer it over Red Wheat because they don't need to change their mill gap.