Raw Wheat Experiment

[bennie1986]

I have access to a lot of free raw wheat. I have researched what, if any, yield I can get from raw wheat with little success. I decided to just go ahead any try mashing 2# of it for what would be a gallon batch. I plugged flaked wheat into beersmith just as a reference point so we will see what I come up with. Im doing biab for this experiment and mashing @ 148 for 90 min. Flaked wheat in beersmith for this "recipe" predicts pre boil gravity of 1.032. If I get anywhere close I plan on boiling and pitching some yeast to see if it tastes like anything I would want to add to an actual recipe.

 

[IslandLizard]

You need to cook the milled, raw wheat first to gelatinize the starches, so the mash enzymes can get to it and convert it to sugar. Boil slowly for 1/2 hour to an hour in water, like making porridge.

Flaked wheat is gelatinized already.

Added after reading your post for the 2nd time:
Your wheat porridge has no diastatic power (read: enzymes) to convert the starches to sugar. You need to supply those enzymes through malted wheat, barley or other sources, and in a quantity high enough so it can finish the job in time given. Generally a mash with a diastatic power (DP) of 40* [edit] will be able to convert itself completely. It could be a bit lower for some malts and adjuncts, and time and temperature is a factor, as usual.

* Per Palmer mashes with a DP of 40 or higher is able to convert themselves completely.

 

[The_Professor]

If I had access to free raw wheat I'd malt it.

 

[bennie1986]

We have tried malting it with success but just wanted to see if this worked at all.

 

[badlee]

raw wheat tastes great and gives body and head to the beer.
BUT, if you want conversion you will have to do a cereal mash or just cook the hell out of the wheat before adding it to the main mash

 

[bennie1986]

You need to cook the milled, raw wheat first to gelatinize the starches, so the mash enzymes can get to it and convert it to sugar. Boil slowly for 1/2 hour to an hour in water, like making porridge.

Flaked wheat is gelatinized already.

I already have it mashing but If it doesn't work ill try it that way next time.

 

[bennie1986]

Or I'll just bring it to a boil for a while and try mashing it again.

 

[ido50]

I'm actually just one week away from tasting a 1 gallon batch of an all-wheat beer I brewed some weeks ago. That is malted wheat though. This is nothing new of course, but this will be the first time I taste an all wheat beer.

I'm not sure what you'll get from nothing but unmalted wheat, but it's an interesting experiment.

 

[IslandLizard]

Or I'll just bring it to a boil for a while and try mashing it again.

Are you using any other malt in the mash? I don't think porridge by itself will ferment into beer, but maybe into something else...

 

[bennie1986]

Are you using any other malt in the mash? I don't think porridge by itself will ferment into beer, but maybe into something else...

Nope just wheat.

 

[bennie1986]

Well I got zero out if it lol! Going to try to boil it and then re mash it.

 

[cruizer8]

I am interested in the results.

 

[stpug]

Raw unmalted wheat has no diastatic power by itself; you'll need something with diastatic power. Red malted wheat is probably the highest if you want to keep it 100% wheat.

Even if you cereal mash you'll still need something with diastatic power - or amalayse enzyme.

You technically don't HAVE to cereal mash raw wheat because it's gelation temp is about 140 which is lower than a sacc rest, but you would need to let it rest longer to get better conversion.

Boiled or not, you will need something additional to convert the starch. If you only want to use your wheat you have on hand then you can malt some of it and then use your home malted wheat to convert more unmalted wheat.

 

[bennie1986]

Raw unmalted wheat has no diastatic power by itself; you'll need something with diastatic power. Red malted wheat is probably the highest if you want to keep it 100% wheat.

Even if you cereal mash you'll still need something with diastatic power - or amalayse enzyme.

You technically don't HAVE to cereal mash raw wheat because it's gelation temp is about 140 which is lower than a sacc rest, but you would need to let it rest longer to get better conversion.

Boiled or not, you will need something additional to convert the starch. If you only want to use your wheat you have on hand then you can malt some of it and then use your home malted wheat to convert more unmalted wheat.

How much 2 row would work for two pounds of wheat.

 

[IslandLizard]

How much 2 row would work for two pounds of wheat.

If you were to stay with all wheat, 1 lb of malted wheat (DP of 120-165) with 2 pounds of your raw, gelatinized wheat should be convertable:

Total DP = 120*1 lb malt + 0*2 lbs porridge = 120 per 3 pounds. DP is 120/3 = 40 / lb. Per Palmer a DP of 40+ is needed. See correction to my original post a few replies back.
​

Use 2-row Barley malt instead (DP = 110), 1.1 pound should do it.

At those minimal DP levels, prepare for a long mash though. And use a thick mash over a thin one. Or use more malt for all security, like 50% extra.

[B]From Cargill Malting:[/B]
Grain Type		Diastatic Power in Degrees Lintner
2-Row Pale Malt			110
6-Row Pale Malt			150
Highly modified Pilsner Malt	125
Malted Wheat			120
Vienna Malt			100
Munich Malt			70
Crystal Malt			0
Unmalted Wheat			0
Chocolate malt, roast barley	0
Unmalted Adjunct grains		0
 (rice, corn)

 

[bennie1986]

Thanks for all the help guys! I boiled it for 15 mins then let it sit until it was back down to mash temps and added 1lb of barley. I'm going to do more research on cereal mashing and try again but for now I'm still going to just see what happens with this one!

 

[bennie1986]

Still got nothing out of the wheat lol! Oh well going to boil it and toss some yeast in to ferment the 2row just for the hell of it. Tossed in some old hops I wasn't going to do anything with. May or may not revisit the raw wheat idea lol!

 

[IslandLizard]

What do you mean you got nothing out of the wheat? You're saying you only got gravity from the barley malt? I assume the mash was very gooey. Did you sparge?
What did the wort look like?

How fine did you mill the wheat? Once cooked, was it like thin porridge?
Maybe the wheat needed to be boiled longer.

 

[NTexBrewer]

I'm a counter top Mini Mash brewer. My Friend's father is a wheat farmer. I just brewed a great Belgian White using 2 lbs of Raw wheat. My mini mash was 2lbs of raw wheat, 2 lbs of 2row, 0.5 lbs malted wheat and 0.5 lbs flaked oats.

I then used 1 lb Pilsen DME and 3 lbs Wheat DME for my additional fermentables for a 5 gallon batch.

This is probably the best use for Raw Wheat.

I did try malting 4 lbs. Malting was easy but kilning is a little hard without a food dehydrator. I tried to make a small 2 gallon batch with my 4 lbs of malted wheat and got terrible conversation. I think my crush was not good enough.

 

[ShaineT]

Or I'll just bring it to a boil for a while and try mashing it again.

I have access to free raw wheat as well. You don't have to boil first if you mash with 2row. I have converted and met my OG every time using extended protein rest and 3 or 4 step mashes. No more than 50% raw wheat with a good base malt and plan a good step mash, it will convert.

 

[NTexBrewer]

ShaineT

Can you explain in more detail your mash and protein rest steps. And if possible why?

Thanks!

 

[bennie1986]

What do you mean you got nothing out of the wheat? You're saying you only got gravity from the barley malt? I assume the mash was very gooey. Did you sparge?
What did the wort look like?

How fine did you mill the wheat? Once cooked, was it like thin porridge?
Maybe the wheat needed to be boiled longer.

The only grav points I got were from the 2row.

 

[The_Professor]

...I did try malting 4 lbs. Malting was easy but kilning is a little hard without a food dehydrator...

I do about 36-48HRS in a 100 oven for drying. Then a few hours at a higher temp for roasting if desired.

 

[ShaineT]

ShaineT

Can you explain in more detail your mash and protein rest steps. And if possible why?

Thanks!

Sure, I basically referenced this article on Belgian brewing using unmalted wheat for authentic witbier: http://realbeer.com/spencer/Belgian/white-brewing.html

I then adopted a recipe for a wit from someone that uses the same mash steps but splits the 45 minute protein rest into two rests at 20 minutes each and a lower mash out temp, So:

Protein Rest 117F 20minutes
Protein Rest 122F 20minutes
Saccharification 146F 60minutes
Mash out at 160F

I raise my temp nice and slow and stir the mash before and after each protein rest. I use the time during saccharification to vorloft as needed and set up a good grain bed for lautering. I get this nice light mash that is easily sparged and not gooey at all. Also I don't mill the wheat in my grain mill but instead used a rotary blade mill as it sets up a better grind with the hard wheat berries. The malted grains are milled as usual.