Rate Beer under attack again

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stevea1210

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I just went to the home page, and the site is still up. I didn't see any mention on the homepage about another attack. Where did you hear about it?
 

z987k

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no problems here. FF and ubuntu... but that last part might be the key.
 
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Grinder12000

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I get red warnings all over the place

This web site at ratebeer.com has been reported as an attack site and has been blocked based on your security preferences.
 

z987k

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I get red warnings all over the place

This web site at ratebeer.com has been reported as an attack site and has been blocked based on your security preferences.
yeah I get that to, but ignoring it does not and can not do any harm, so.. so what?
 

Bob

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What's the point? Ratebeer.com is a pointless waste of time, anyhow.

Listen - if any chimp with an Intarwebz connection can log on and rate a beer, the whole affair becomes pointless. If you notice, the top-rated beers are all big flavor-bombs: IIPA, RIS, etc. Styles like basic, old APA or Mild get 'ho-hum' ratings.

That's the kind of crap that happens when consumers rate a product. It turns into a popularity contest, not an objective rating of each beer according to objective standards.

Pubcrawler is the same way. I read a review of one of my favorite brewpubs once - a guy gave them the crappiest possible review numbers, because he said the waitress was rude to him. First off, he rated the food and beer with the worst rating, even though by his own admission he never tasted them. Second, I happened to be there when it happened; the jackass was drunk, and the waitress refused to serve him any more alcohol. He got abusive, so she told him off and threw his sloppy ass out. What irks me about that is his crappy review brought down that establishment's numbers.

If you want a review of a beer, you can go to Ratebeer and read between the lines, sifting through the crap and malware to get some oaf's tin-tongued opinion of a beer. Or you can just go buy a bottle of the stuff and drink it yourself. I know which one I'd enjoy more! ;)

Cheers,

Bob
 
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Grinder12000

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Geez - someone has issues. The reason I like the place is every new beer I try (and put on my beer wall) gets rated from all the sites and then the points are combined into one point value (pro rated or course)!

What is GOOD about the site is that "any chimp with an Intarwebz connection can log on" as opposed to beer geeks and home brewers which are way way more opinionated.

Plus - if you look at all the competitions from home brewers BIG beers are the ones getting all of the entries - THUS Home brewers are in your "any chimp" category.
 

flyangler18

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Bob's comments resonate with me, and echo my own experience. Ratings on RateBeer aren't typically from an informed position about the merits of a particular beer as being an excellent example of the style, for example. As I often said to my composition students, criticism (of any type) cannot standardize individual tastes or develop a standard for excellence. These things are all hopelessly and fatally subjective, and I'm sure that many people who scan ratings on RateBeer are invariably colored by a substandard rating of 'it sucks.'

Trust your tongue, take notes of what you like or don't like, and then see what the buzz about that particular beer is all about. Come to your own conclusions. To draw another anecdote from my teaching days, I always encouraged my students, when they were doing analysis/criticism assignments, to approach a work of literature on their own terms when developing their thesis and consult secondary sources of criticism afterwards. This way, their voice came through first and not just part of the chorus of noise in the background. Their opinions and reactions were entirely their own- not unduly influenced by the critics and naysayers.
 

Bob

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Thank you; you said it far better than I did. I just hate rating sites. If the ratings were coming from seasoned tasters using objective standards against style standards - like the World Beer Cup or GABF judging - I'd respect it. Sites like Ratebeer and Beeradvocate let anyone rate a beer, regardless of the "judge's" competence.

It's the difference between objective and subjective. The come-one-come-all rating sites are so subjective as to be useless.

I do have issues with ratings from "judges" whose credentials are nonexistent. At the very least, a BJCP certification shows a certain level of knowing what the hell you're talking about.

I agree that homebrewers are subject to fads. Entries in Imperial [fill in the blank] far exceed, say, Ordinary Bitter or Mild Ale. After all, they're beer drinkers. Look at the ratings list for Beeradvocate - out of the "A" beers on their list of 50 most recently reviewed beers, one - ONE - isn't a hops monster or imperial stout or bock or big Belgian beer (Point Special, a regional adjunct lager). I don't translate that into smaller beers being less "good"; I attribute that to starry-eyed reviewers who don't know what to do if they don't get smacked in the mouth. For example, here's a review of Coors Light:

Pours a clear very light yellow color with almost no head.

There is hardly an aroma at all, maybe some very light grains.

The taste is of light grains, very watery, kind of a light fruit taste, a little sour. There is a slight hoppy aftertaste.

Very light mouthfeel, crisp and thin. Pretty refreshing.

Although this is very easy to drink, it doesn't really have much else to offer.
The reviewer then rates the beer an "F" - when his verbal description exactly matches what Light American Lager is supposed to be.

What can you possibly take away from that other than a symptom of the whole affair being screwed up beyond all recognition?

Grinder, there's nothing personal here; it's merely my opinion that the rating sites aren't worth the time it takes to read them. I'd rather take that time to sit and drink a sample of the beer I'm considering and trust my own judgement.

Cheerfully,

Bob
 

bull8042

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Sorry to interrupt the heated debate with this, but:

yeah I get that to, but ignoring it does not and can not do any harm, so.. so what?
"Does not and cannot do any harm".... You might want to preface your comment with the fact that you are enjoying the fruits of Linux and not some flavor of Windoze!
To the uninitiated or ill-informed who are using Windoze, your post may seem to suggest that they could safely ignore the warnings.... NOT a good thing for them!
Long live Linux! :mug:
 

brewt00l

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I guess you get out of a given site what you look for or expect. Both offer far more than reviews but if that's all you see......

I just pop'd on to RB w/ XP & IE7 for kicks and was getting attacks with in a few clicks.
 

z987k

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Sorry to interrupt the heated debate with this, but:



"Does not and cannot do any harm".... You might want to preface your comment with the fact that you are enjoying the fruits of Linux and not some flavor of Windoze!
To the uninitiated or ill-informed who are using Windoze, your post may seem to suggest that they could safely ignore the warnings.... NOT a good thing for them!
Long live Linux! :mug:
<smartass>
Ah well, maybe they should use a secure operating system :D
</smartass>

On the subject of these sites, they deliver exactly what I would expect. The coors entry is valid because he is not rating, nor are almost anyone on there, the beer to a style, rather to their taste.
A LL or Hefe can be the best LL or Hefe ever made and I'm still not going to like it.

I mean do you give a Renaut LeCar a good rating in the turd category because it's a good turd of a car? I think you're confusing the type of rating the site uses.
 

flyangler18

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On the subject of these sites, they deliver exactly what I would expect. The coors entry is valid because he is not rating, nor are almost anyone on there, the beer to a style, rather to their taste.
A LL or Hefe can be the best LL or Hefe ever made and I'm still not going to like it.
You are proving my point- that ratings sites (of any flavor or variety on any subject) don't really have any practical function other than to let some poor schlep pass judgment on some object and feel momentarily good about it. As I said earlier, there is no accounting for taste, no magical constant that sets all reviews on the same playing field. Individual tastes, likes/dislikes color the review and they aren't subjective. How does looking at reviews on RateBeer help an adventurous beer drinker choose their next beer to try? Informed reviews like those you see in GABF write-ups is a completely different animal from your typical RateBeer review.

You have to recognize that truly tremendous beers may receive craptastic reviews just by who has chosen to review them- and this translates into the perception of that beer to the larger audience.

Again, this is my opinion on the matter.

Jason
 

brewt00l

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You are proving my point- that ratings sites (of any flavor or variety on any subject) don't really have any practical function other than to let some poor schlep pass judgment on some object and feel momentarily good about it.
Do you feel the same way about the commercial reviews posted on this site?
 

DeathBrewer

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i like reading the descriptions on ratebeer and beeradvocate for stuff i haven't tried yet. despite their ratings, it'll give me an idea of what to expect and whether i should put forth the effort of obtaining a bottle. it's also a nice quick way to find out ABV, breweries, etc. when you don't have all the information on the bottle or are simply investigating.
 

flyangler18

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Do you feel the same way about the commercial reviews posted on this site?
Overall, no- because I see them as being done intelligently and with careful consideration. Reactions are honest and forthright, with explanations offered. I also like that there isn't a running average of reviews in some abitrary rating system like a number value or letter grade to account for outliers.
 

brewt00l

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Overall, no- because I see them as being done intelligently and with careful consideration. Reactions are honest and forthright, with explanations offered. I also like that there isn't a running average of reviews in some abitrary rating system like a number value or letter grade to account for outliers.
There is not qualification process here either...I don't know if you can attribute those attributes across the board.
 

flyangler18

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There is no qualification process here either
You're right, there isn't. I was just pointing out that reviews are inherently and fatally subjective- and the challenge is evaluating a reviewer's writeup and seeing past its warts. There's simply no way of accounting for individual tastes.

:mug:

I guess my biggest point of contention with the ratings is that they can skew the perception of a truly magnificent beer because it doesn't have mass appeal.
 

the_bird

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i like reading the descriptions on ratebeer and beeradvocate for stuff i haven't tried yet. despite their ratings, it'll give me an idea of what to expect and whether i should put forth the effort of obtaining a bottle. it's also a nice quick way to find out ABV, breweries, etc. when you don't have all the information on the bottle or are simply investigating.

Yup. The ratings themselvems aren't all that interesting, but I like reading what other people have to say. When I'm trying something new, I'll usually drink like half of it, jot down my thoughts, and read what some other people are thinking. Sometimes they'll use a descriptor that I hadn't thought of, so I'll go back and look for whatever flavor they mention. Interesting, too, to just look at the really good and the really bad reviews; you can usually tell who knows what they're talking about and who doesn't.

So, the ratings themselves - limited value, but the site and the reviews are very helpful.
 
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Grinder12000

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Sorry to interrupt the heated debate with this, but:
No heated debate here - although I do think you must think people that spend 10 minutes to fill out the forms AND have a coherent thought about what they are experiencing when tasting a beer are pretty dumb and stupid.

I on the other hand think that people that spend that much effort are actually much smarter then the average beer drinker.

Have you never looked at the standard deviation numbers on rating sites? I think that is as important as the raw numbers.

Just my point of view but I consider beer raters superior for the most part.

It also all depends on what you are using the site for. If it is for telling you what you like you are not using it correctly. I use it to teach me about the complexities of beer and perhaps subtle things I might be missing.
 

mrbowenz

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Thank you; you said it far better than I did. I just hate rating sites. If the ratings were coming from seasoned tasters using objective standards against style standards - like the World Beer Cup or GABF judging - I'd respect it. Sites like Ratebeer and Beeradvocate let anyone rate a beer, regardless of the "judge's" competence.

It's the difference between objective and subjective. The come-one-come-all rating sites are so subjective as to be useless.

I do have issues with ratings from "judges" whose credentials are nonexistent. At the very least, a BJCP certification shows a certain level of knowing what the hell you're talking about.

I agree that homebrewers are subject to fads. Entries in Imperial [fill in the blank] far exceed, say, Ordinary Bitter or Mild Ale. After all, they're beer drinkers. Look at the ratings list for Beeradvocate - out of the "A" beers on their list of 50 most recently reviewed beers, one - ONE - isn't a hops monster or imperial stout or bock or big Belgian beer (Point Special, a regional adjunct lager). I don't translate that into smaller beers being less "good"; I attribute that to starry-eyed reviewers who don't know what to do if they don't get smacked in the mouth. For example, here's a review of Coors Light:



The reviewer then rates the beer an "F" - when his verbal description exactly matches what Light American Lager is supposed to be.

What can you possibly take away from that other than a symptom of the whole affair being screwed up beyond all recognition?

Grinder, there's nothing personal here; it's merely my opinion that the rating sites aren't worth the time it takes to read them. I'd rather take that time to sit and drink a sample of the beer I'm considering and trust my own judgement.

Cheerfully,

Bob
Brilliant you old Jollylobber , just brilliant !

I'm with Bob on this one too :cross:
 

mmb

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Overall, no- because I see them as being done intelligently and with careful consideration. Reactions are honest and forthright, with explanations offered. I also like that there isn't a running average of reviews in some abitrary rating system like a number value or letter grade to account for outliers.
You've obvious not read the Bud Ale threads. :D
 

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