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RANT: Our Doofus Mail Carrier

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Evan!

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Sorry, this might get kinda long, but I'm a bit pissed...

Here's the situation: we have a front stoop where the front door is located, and that's where the mailbox is. To get there from the driveway, you walk by the big front window (2 panes, one of which is storm glass). Our dog Xander, all of 45 lbs, tends to jump up on the window when someone comes by the house. We've had success stopping this by putting a "Scat Mat" in front of the window, which shocks him if he steps on it. But our scat mat broke recently, and we're waiting on PetSmart to get more in stock (should be tomorrow) to replace it.

In the meantime, last Wednesday, we get no mail. Not surprising: sometimes, when we have a substitute mailman and Xander jumps on the window, we'll get no mail---then the next day we'll get it delivered with a note about him jumping on the window. But it didn't come Thursday either. Or Friday. My calls to the local USPS delivery office yielded no answer or even a chance to leave a message. It just rang and rang. On Saturday, we were downstairs with Xander, so we know he wasn't jumping on the window. We watched the mailman drive by our house 3 times, but never even bothered to get out of his truck. Now I'm pissed.

On Monday, still no mail and still no answer from the delivery office---but this time, there's a "delivery suspended" notice stuck in the side door. On the back, the carrier has scrawled a note: "stopped delivery because dog jumpping [sp] on window. delivery will resume when mailbox is moved out towards the street. recommend putting it in the corner where the driveway meets the parking spaces". Well, first off, we can't put anything there because the muni water line runs through it. Second, I don't like to be told what I must do without any conversation. So we go down to the post office to pick up the held mail, and talk to the clerk about our situation. He seems very surprised that it was handled in such a matter, said that it should not be done like that, and also reveals that the delivery was suspended last WEDNESDAY. So, it took him 5 days to finally let us know? Now I was even more pissed. The clerk gave us the number of the guy's supervisor.

So yesterday morning, I moved our mailbox to the side of our house, so that the carrier doesn't have to go anywhere near the window. I tried calling the supervisor, left 2 messages, but nobody calls back.

Got home yesterday, no delivery. Again. I was livid. I wanted to hurt someone. We called the post office, no answer, no returned call. Again. So I calmed down, wrote a letter expressing my frustration at being treated unfairly, and requested that they resume delivery. I put it in a ziploc and nailed to the tree near the road with 'FOR USPS MAIL CARRIER" on it. I called his supervisor again this morning, and finally talked to a real person!! He said he'd get delivery resumed, but I'm leaving the letter on the tree.

My uncle is a regional USPS manager up in Mass who started out as a carrier many years ago, and I talked to him about this a few days ago. He said that this is not at all how this stuff should be handled by the postal service. There should be a dialog, but they can't just stop delivery without notification and demand that you put your mailbox on the street.

If my mail doesn't come today, I'm filing a formal complaint with the postmaster and am also going to have my unc give them a call. He is the boss of dozens of postmasters, so I think he'll be able to deal with it. I've been treated like sh*t, ignored, and had my mail held for days without notification---which caused time sensitive documents to reach me late. This is simply unacceptable treatment---and that carrier had better hope that he listens to his supervisor today and resumes delivery. I mean, I fully understand that some people are very afraid of dogs---and I am also afraid for Xander's safety---which is why I have ordered a new shock mat and have moved the mailbox. There's not a whole lot else I can do short of locking my dog in the closet all day. I'm just...pissed.

[/rant]
 

MikeFlynn74

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Dog jumping on window?

What happened to "Neither snow nor rain not heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds."

Your mail carrier is a giant *****
 

cheezydemon

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Maybe he was afraid that the dog would burst through the window breaking the glass.....But that doesn't even happen in movies.

I applaude your keeping your cool, but that does sound like an unneccesary PITA.
 
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Evan!

Evan!

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MikeFlynn74 said:
Dog jumping on window?

What happened to "Neither snow nor rain not heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds."

Your mail carrier is a giant *****
Heh, yeah, neither snow nor rain...but...hey, 6 holidays a month? Sorry! Those douches take holidays like it's goin out of style. "Hey, happy Garfield day! We get the day off! haha! No mail for you!"

Yes, he is a major pu$$y. As my uncle said, if there was a previous incident with the dog (which there wasn't) or if the dog was outside and the mailbox was on the fence where to dog was...then maybe...but inside, behind 2 sheets of glass, one of which is tempered storm glass? Grow a pair.

And it's not like he's a huge gnarly beast. He's a 45-lb, lovable pup who just gets excited when people come around. I mean, does this scare you?



Oh, god, help! :rolleyes:
 

bigjohnmilford

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MikeFlynn74 said:
Dog jumping on window?

What happened to "Neither snow nor rain not heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds."

Your mail carrier is a giant *****
+1 what a bunch of wussies the usps has become. I remember them carrying dog treats with them years ago. It's just seems that's the way this whole country is going.
 
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Evan!

Evan!

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cheezydemon said:
Maybe he was afraid that the dog would burst through the window breaking the glass.....But that doesn't even happen in movies.

I applaude your keeping your cool, but that does sound like an unneccesary PITA.
You show me a 45 lbs dog that can bust through storm glass by simply jumping up on it and hitting it with his 2 paws...and I'll show you some defective storm glass.

That's probably what he's afraid of, but like you said, that doesn't even happen in movies.

Not to mention that other deliverers seem to be able to deal with it...
 
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Evan!

Evan!

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bigjohnmilford said:
+1 what a bunch of wussies the usps has become. I remember them carrying dog treats with them years ago. It's just seems that's the way this whole country is going.
Actually, our old mailman was awesome...he DID carry treats and loved our dogs. This new guy is a total bitch tho.
 

the_bird

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I'm trying to understand the thought process behind going from...

"I'm really, REALLY afraid of dogs," to
"I think being a letter carrier would be a SWELL career choice!"

:confused: :confused:
 

srm775

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Dude said:
Evan, you handled it better than I could have. I'd have prolly been in jail! That is ridiculous, I hope the guy gets fired.
Probably not going to happen ... we are talking about the civil service/federal govt.

The old addage that you're promoted to your level of incompetency is, for the most part, alive and well in that sector.
 

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So not only are the mail carriers afraid of 10# dogs outside, now they are scared of dogs inside? WTF? I would definately not let this issue rest, not delivering your mail in this situation is taking it too far.
 

beergears

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Evan! said:
Actually, our old mailman was awesome...he DID carry treats and loved our dogs.

Mine does! Actually (She does.

When I work from home, we both go greet her in the truck, doggie goes in, checks things out...

Somehow, the dog is nuts about delivery trucks... all of them: UPS (favorite, brown!), DHL, FedEx..!!
We are talking about the monster at left <---
 

Kevin Dean

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I'm kind of on the other side of that. It's always been very clearly stated to me in any of the areas I've lived that barriers (living or not) to mail delivery will cause the mail to be held. If your mailboxes are in an apartment complex's locked room, you don't get mail if the door is locked. If you have a mail slot and your screen door is locked, you don't get mail. If the carrier feels your dog is a barrier, it's his call not to deliver.

That said, not saying something about that is a prick move. I can see the request (or even demand) to move your mailbox but once you comply that should be the end of the story, mail delivery resumes.

I hope everything works out for you!
 

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Kevin Dean said:
If the carrier feels your dog is a barrier, it's his call not to deliver.
Im going to disagree.

The carrier would not deliver the mail because of the dog in the house. So you can't have a dog in the house or outside the house?

Sounds like a lazy mail carrier that doesn't want to walk to the door anymore.
 

beala

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Kevin Dean said:
I'm kind of on the other side of that.
I'd have to agree with kevin here. Certainly the mail carrier didn't handle the situation well, but it's definitely understandable how someone in that line of work wouldn't want to put up with anything when it comes to dogs. That is, he may not have been justified, but it's understandable all the same.

For example, my mom is deathly afraid of dogs, even small harmless ones. Now, one possibility is to tell her to 'grow a pair' but I think the more reasonable solution is for dog owners to control their dogs. Not everyone likes dogs, and that's something dog owners seem to be oblivious to. I'm definitely not saying your dog was out of control, i'm just saying I could see how a postman's annoyance with dogs could eventually turn into a complete lack of tolerance for them.
 

McKBrew

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It's one thing in my situation where the dog was outside(even though I still think the way the situation went down was a crock). If a dog is inside behind a door, the mail delivery person has absolutely no right to complain. It's ridiculous that we have to cater to everyone in this country who is just looking to play "victim" and complain about everything. The next thing you know, the mailman won't deliver the mail because he hears a dog barking from inside the house.

If a person has an overwhelming fear of dogs and choses a career as a mail person, they have made a bad choice and it's time to find a new job.
 

bigjohnmilford

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beala said:
I'd have to agree with kevin here. Certainly the mail carrier didn't handle the situation well, but it's definitely understandable how someone in that line of work wouldn't want to put up with anything when it comes to dogs. That is, he may not have been justified, but it's understandable all the same.

For example, my mom is deathly afraid of dogs, even small harmless ones. Now, one possibility is to tell her to 'grow a pair' but I think the more reasonable solution is for dog owners to control their dogs. Not everyone likes dogs, and that's something dog owners seem to be oblivious to. I'm definitely not saying your dog was out of control, i'm just saying I could see how a postman's annoyance with dogs could eventually turn into a complete lack of tolerance for them.

Ok, so your saying that one persons fears / needs merit many people having to accommodate that fear? I just don't agree. I don't see a dog in a house behind a door or window being a reason to not drop the mail. If he or she couldn't put it in the mail slot just drop it between the doors. Many postal carriers have mace on there bags to help them with dogs that give them trouble. If a postal carrier has that much trouble with dogs they've chosen the wrong line of work. Another case where it's all a matter of opinion. Cheers :mug:
 

zoebisch01

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Whoa wait, hold the phone. The dog is inside. There is a friggin window between them, so what he is really saying is he's afraid your dog is going to jump through a double walled window to attack him?

I'm sorry, I call BS and agree that he probably doesn't want to walk out of his way anymore and found an excuse. If he is that afraid, he's in the wrong business.

/end line
 
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Evan!

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Kevin Dean said:
I'm kind of on the other side of that. It's always been very clearly stated to me in any of the areas I've lived that barriers (living or not) to mail delivery will cause the mail to be held. If your mailboxes are in an apartment complex's locked room, you don't get mail if the door is locked. If you have a mail slot and your screen door is locked, you don't get mail. If the carrier feels your dog is a barrier, it's his call not to deliver.

This isn't the same opinion as my Uncle---and he's a USPS bigwig who is the boss of dozens of postmasters. he says that without prior incident, there's no justification for it, and they are obligated to deliver my mail.


That said, not saying something about that is a prick move. I can see the request (or even demand) to move your mailbox but once you comply that should be the end of the story, mail delivery resumes.

I hope everything works out for you!
Thanks, me too.
 
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Evan!

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UPDATE: Even after his supervisor assured me that delivery would be resumed...I went home a few minutes ago, and the letter I wrote to him was gone, but the mail was not delivered!

This is getting ridiculous. I'm about to blow my top, damnit. I WANT MY F*CKING MAIL, you DOUCHE! My little dog can't break through storm glass. He's not even trying to break through. Your supervisor resumed delivery, so DELIVER MY MAIL.

Either way, whatever happens in the end, I'm filing an official complaint with the postmaster AND I'm getting my uncle involved. I'm going to do everything in my power to see this ******* fired.
 
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Evan!

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Oh, man. I just talked to his supervisor again. He said that he told the guy right after he got off the phone with me this morning to resume delivery.

I also explained how it took them 5 days to notify me after they stopped delivery, and he said that there's no reason for that.

Goddamn, I hope heads roll. He's investigating and will call me back soon.
 

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Seems to me the dog is adequately restrained. What goes on in your house has no effect on the mail carrier and his/her ability to the job. You have to accomodate REAL threats created by your dog, not PERCEIVED threats imagined by the carrier.

If they don't resume your mail service, ask for direction on appropriate means of restraining your animal. I'll bet keeping your dog in the house is one of the recommended methods. You can really make these people look like asses here.
 
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Evan!

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Fingers said:
Seems to me the dog is adequately restrained. What goes on in your house has no effect on the mail carrier and his/her ability to the job. You have to accomodate REAL threats created by your dog, not PERCEIVED threats imagined by the carrier.

If they don't resume your mail service, ask for direction on appropriate means of restraining your animal. I'll bet keeping your dog in the house is one of the recommended methods. You can really make these people look like asses here.
Heh, yeah...but, hell, even the supervisor has no idea why it didn't get delivered. I mean, he gave the carrier specific instructions! This carrier has earned himself a special award...

 

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If your dog is going to break through the glass, then the tree in my front yard is going to fall on my mail carrier...better stop delivering my mail.

Stupid.
 

cubbies

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beala said:
For example, my mom is deathly afraid of dogs, even small harmless ones. Now, one possibility is to tell her to 'grow a pair' but I think the more reasonable solution is for dog owners to control their dogs. Not everyone likes dogs, and that's something dog owners seem to be oblivious to. I'm definitely not saying your dog was out of control, i'm just saying I could see how a postman's annoyance with dogs could eventually turn into a complete lack of tolerance for them.

I'm not buying that at all. So what if a postman is afraid of squirrels? Am I supposed to rid my yard of squirrels, because s\he is afraid of them? Even though they pose essentially 0 risk to the person? A line has to be drawn somewhere. I dog enclosed in a house is more than enough "preventative maintenance". If the mailman cant handle it he either does need to grow a pair or find a new line of work.

On a side note, I find this thread very funny. Dont get me wrong Evan!, I don't think your situation is funny at all, but there has been some very comical remarks along the way.
 
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Evan!

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So I just had a long conversation with the supervisor. He went through all the issues, safety for the carrier, safety for the dog, etc. He also wanted us to put a mailbox on the road, and I said look, why don’t we give the side door a shot? There’s simply no possible way for my dog to break that little window in the door, it's 4' high, and when he does jump up, he just puts his paws on the sill...so there’s no danger to him or the carrier if it’s on the side door. As of tomorrow we should have the shock mat back in service, and that has proven to be 100% effective at keeping him off the front glass.

I also mentioned that we have a storm door on the side, so if the one in a million shot happened and xander did somehow break the glass on the side door, it wouldn’t shatter anywhere to harm the carrier. The guy then seized on that, saying that sometimes dogs can break through storm doors if the owners leave them open. I assured him that the interior door is never left open during the day. Ever. I told him, look, I don’t want to put your carrier or my dog in any danger, but I honestly believe that between putting the mailbox on the side and getting a new shock mat, we will avoid this…and all I ask is that we give it a chance. If we get the mat and the guy still has problems, then hey, fine, we’ll accommodate you and put something out near the road (I'll also file a complaint). But just give this a chance first. He said okay, so we should have mail.

He did mention that the carrier once had a dog break through a window and ended up hurting the carrier, who was out of work for a couple weeks...so, again, I can understand his concern---but I moved the mailbox, dammit. There's no window for him to break through on the side!
 

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Let me just tell you, I have lived in my apartment for 3 years, and we NEVER get mail on Wednesdays. Why you ask? Well, our building is set behind another one that has the SAME EXACT NUMBER on it. So on Wednesdays, when the substitute mail carrier is working the route, no mail for us. This year we have had a check for $10,000, a W2, and federal loan statement go missing. Not to mention the numerous bills and magazines we miss if they happen to be delivered on a Wednesday.

I am to the point where I am going to take a picture of the property, go to the mail station, and use a staple gun to attach it to the mail carrier's forehead.

As for your situation, sounds like you too have a lazy mail carrier who doesn't want to walk up to your house and is using the dog as an excuse.
 

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Evan! said:
He did mention that the carrier once had a dog break through a window and ended up hurting the carrier

Sorry still don't buy it. I have seen what happens to people that have fallen through a window. I doubt a dog that broke a window(if the dog was able to at all) would be in any shape to attack anything.

Not saying I don't believe you Evan, just seems to me this people are struggling to come up with an excuse.
 
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Evan!

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Joker said:
Sorry still don't buy it. I have seen what happens to people that have fallen through a window. I doubt a dog that broke a window(if the dog was able to at all) would be in any shape to attack anything.

Not saying I don't believe you Evan, just seems to me this people are struggling to come up with an excuse.
I agree with you---but I'm trying to be accommodating here, trying work with them, something that they obviously don't want to do. They want to dictate the terms and me follow them. Horse-hockey! Well, I'm going to work from home tomorrow, so I know where the dog will be all day---and if he fails to deliver again, I'm gonna get him fired, for real. I'll make a real stink...they don't want to f*ck with me any more.
 

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I do empathize with your situation and agree this has been handled poorly.

I have a 60 pound dog with a 4 inch scar on his chest that he got from bounding on a large picture window over the course of several months. It sounds very much the same as what you are describing. All I'm saying is that over time the window can be weakened. It sounds like you are arlready taking steps to mitigate the problem with the dog so I figure there's no cuase for worry.

However, to play devil's advocate: here's a dog that for a while didn't pounce on the window at the postman. Then the dog started pouncing. That's a significant change in behavior and someone witnessing a significant change in an animal's aggressive behavior might have reasonable cause to be concerned.

And odds are that window is flexing with the impact and looks like it could break at any moment. It's very possible that a 3rd party who watches the dog bound agaisnt the window might have good reason to worry.

I also want to say that taking a cute picture of my pet doesn't accurately represent how my dog looks when he is barking at an 'intruder'. He looks cute when he's in cute mode but not so much when he's barking at the UPS guy or a squirrel. Questions like 'who could be afraid of this' aren't useful in looking at the problem because that's NOT what is being seen.

It bears repeating: I think this guy handled the problem poorly. Based on yoru description you have good cause for being upset at how the problem was managed.

However, based on your description of the situation he may well have good reason have become concerned for his safety around your dog. That's not to say your dog is unsafe-- but the description you give, couple with a reasonable amount of empathy for someone faced with what you describe, suggests to me that there might be a logical reason for concern.

One other item: it is easy for people who are angry about something to assume that if they are right abotu one aspect of what they are angry about, that means they are right about everything. Be careful not to fall into that logical fallacy (there's a word for that type of fallacy but I do not recall what it is).
 
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Evan!

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kornkob said:
I do empathize with your situation and agree this has been handled poorly.

I have a 60 pound dog with a 4 inch scar on his chest that he got from bounding on a large picture window over the course of several months. It sounds very much the same as what you are describing. All I'm saying is that over time the window can be weakened. It sounds like you are arlready taking steps to mitigate the problem with the dog so I figure there's no cuase for worry.

However, to play devil's advocate: here's a dog that for a while didn't pounce on the window at the postman. Then the dog started pouncing. That's a significant change in behavior and someone witnessing a significant change in an animal's aggressive behavior might have reasonable cause to be concerned.

And odds are that window is flexing with the impact and looks like it could break at any moment. It's very possible that a 3rd party who watches the dog bound agaisnt the window might have good reason to worry.

I also want to say that taking a cute picture of my pet doesn't accurately represent how my dog looks when he is barking at an 'intruder'. He looks cute when he's in cute mode but not so much when he's barking at the UPS guy or a squirrel. Questions like 'who could be afraid of this' aren't useful in looking at the problem because that's NOT what is being seen.

It bears repeating: I think this guy handled the problem poorly. Based on yoru description you have good cause for being upset at how the problem was managed.

However, based on your description of the situation he may well have good reason have become concerned for his safety around your dog. That's not to say your dog is unsafe-- but the description you give, couple with a reasonable amount of empathy for someone faced with what you describe, suggests to me that there might be a logical reason for concern.

One other item: it is easy for people who are angry about something to assume that if they are right abotu one aspect of what they are angry about, that means they are right about everything. Be careful not to fall into that logical fallacy (there's a word for that type of fallacy but I do not recall what it is).
I don't disagree with anything you're saying. The window thing has been a problem that we've been trying everything to fix...and now that the mailbox is nowhere near the window, there should be absolutely no cause for concern. Like I've said numerous times above, I don't want to put him or my dog in danger---which is why I've gone through these measures---and no matter how silly we all might think it is to be askeered of a dog on the other side of 2 panes of glass (one being storm glass), it's not necessarily my place to make that call. But yeah, they've handled it sh*ttily...
 

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he won't get fired. mabye written up, or suspended, or put on a different route, but i doubt he gets canned.

train your dog better ;) , or put the box on the street so they don't even have to get out of the truck.
 

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That ain't right either though. I miss having a mailbox on the house largely because I hate trapsing out to get the damn mail.

Haivng a curbside mailbox makes it easier for people to find my house (because the numbers of all the houses are out front in the same place) and is definatley easier for the mailman but is less conveinent for me because there's no easy way to grab my mail (liek reaching out the front door and fishing it out of the box).
 

uglygoat

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i'm just being a ****head... ;)

i used to live in an old house that had a set of concrete stairs you had to walk up from the sidewalk to the house. then the porch stairs and a mail slot on the house. one day there was a note that said we had to install a mailbox down on the sidewalk, cause the carrier didn't feel like they should walk up two sets of steps.

i ignored it, and they continued delivering.
 
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I'm with Kramer on this...

Postal Employee: "May I help you?"
Kramer: "Yeah, I'd like to cancel my mail."
Postal Employee: "Certainly. How long would you like us to hold it?"
Kramer: "Oh, no, no. I don't think you get me. I want out, permanently."
Newman: "I'll handle this, Violet. Why don't you take your three hour break?
Oh, calm down, everyone. No one's cancelling any mail."
Kramer: "Oh, yes, I am."
Newman: "What about your bills?"
Kramer: "The bank can pay 'em."
Newman: "The bank. What about your cards and letters?"
Kramer: "E-mail, telephones, fax machines. Fedex, telex, telegrams,
holograms."
Newman: "All right, it's true! Of course nobody needs mail. What do you
think, you're so clever for figuring that out? But you don't know the half of
what goes on here. So just walk away, Kramer. I beg of you."
Supervisor: "Is everything all right here, Postal Employee Newman?"
Newman: "Yes, sir, I believe everything is all squared away. Isn't it, Mr.
Kramer?"
Kramer: "Oh, yeah. As long as I stop getting mail!"
 

zoebisch01

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My mailbox is susceptible to plow damage. :(

Anyways, I have seen dogs jump through really old one sheet glass and come out unscathed. But anything (save the bargain basement windows) put in oh say the past 20 to 30 years is some pretty tough stuff. It takes a lot, and your dog would most likely need cause for such alarm I'd imagine. Dogs can do some pretty wacky stuff, but usually this is because they get extremely excited. I suppose I could see the guy's pov, but I still don't think it's entirely realistic (i.e. he's being completely paranoid).

At any rate, the execution of his solution was completely unprofessional and there would need to be an explanation of as to why you weren't going to get your mail beforehand.

I think these guys would agree, don't you?

http://www.uspsoig.gov/about.htm
 
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