Quick sweet cider for the impatient

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jay415

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I found this on youtube and it looked interesting, This looks like a recipe that you can experiment with and have quick rewards while your waiting months for your normal batch of cider or Apfelwein to age and mature. I have not tried it yet but I plan to when I can actually get out to the store.

This guy made a wild yeast starter that he has been using for 2 years with organic store bought apple juice and an organic apple with good results. He makes a sweeter cider that is very quick (1 week w/ only 2-3% abv) and it is consumed cloudy. It is also a good way to make a wild yeast starter to have on hand.

Here is a quote from the following site:
http://www.eattheweeds.com/www.EatT...10/10/22_CIDER,_HARD,_BUT_QUICK_AND_EASY.html
Using wild apple yeast is taking a chance that the yeast will throw a bad flavor. On the other hand, using a champagne yeast can make the cider taste wine-ish. I opted for wild apple yeast and there was an easy solution at hand. When I first bought a gallon of organic cider at the same time I bought an organic granny smith apple. It could have been any organic apple, but the key is it was an organic apple that should have wild apple yeast on it. I did not wash it. I took my apple cider and apple home. I peeled the apple and put the peeling into the apple juice and put it in a warm, dark place. It took almost two weeks for the yeast on the peeling to multiply to the point I could see bubbles rising in the cider. But by three weeks I was on my way.

When I bottled that first batch of cider I kept the dregs, which were apple sediment, some juice, and a lot of yeast. I put that in a two quart soda bottle, added a couple of tablespoons of sugar, and kept it in a warm place, letting off the gas build-up every few days. One can also store it in the frig long term. Now when I buy a gallon of cider, all I have to do is pour off a half a cup of juice, add a half a cup of starter, and then put that half cup of juice into the starter bottle with a little sugar. That wild yeast has produced very well for me for over two years.
Also here is the guy's video of the same process.
[youtube]6Cybdxjf7ac[/youtube]
 

Pogo

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jay415 -

If this is a valid recipe, and holds up as indicated when I test it, as I'm sure that it will, it will serve as a treasure trove of information about the simplicity of Mother Nature's laws.

All of the studying of winemaking that I have been doing can simply be digested down into the one post that you opened this thread with.

Being a newbie, the lights of unlimited homebrew possibilities went off like flashbulbs in my head as I read your post.

Thanks for taking the trouble to share this with us.

Pogo
 

Pogo

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Hopefully someone here has some experience with wild fruit yeasts.

I have three fruit trees in my backyard.

An apple, a peach, and a pear.

All are currently bearing fruit from the size of golf balls to hen eggs.

I'm thinking that natural yeast would be the most abundant when the fruit is fully ripe, but I'm thinking that the peels from immature fruit would still contain plenty of yeast to start a primary fermenting.

Does anyone know anything about this aspect of traditional style fermenting?

Pogo
 
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jay415

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I started mine today so I'll let you know how it comes out. 1 gallon of Trader Joe's organic unfiltered apple juice, and the skin of 2 organic fuji apples. Starting OG of 1.050 with no further additions.
 
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jay415

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Ok here's an update: some noticeable fermentation started a few days ago with a few bubbles showing on the juice surface. Today is 9 days in and now there is obvious activity in the airlock, 1 bubble every 38 sec. awesome apple smell coming from the airlock. Unknown gravity at this point.
 

Pogo

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Thanks for the update.

I've decided to try this, too.

Yesterday I dissolved 1/4 cup of cane sugar into a pint of warm filtered tap water.

After letting the water cool to room temperature, I then poured it into a glass quart Mason jar, added 1/4 tsp of yeast nutrient, put a lid on it, then shook it vigorously to aerate the solution.

Then I placed one of the largest of the, half mature, apples from my apple tree into the sugar solution.

Rather than peel the apple, I elected to put the whole apple itself into the solution. Actually, I tried to minimize handling the apple as much as possible in an effort to keep from removing and/or contaminating any of the yeast riding on the apples skin.

I use sanitized needle-nose pliers to grab the apples stem and pull it from the tree, as well as to pull the stem from the apple.

I had already prepared another Mason flat (lid) to accept an airlock by drilling a one half inch hole in it's center and inserting a 7/16 inch black rubber grommet [$0.36US @ the LHS (Local Hardware Store)] into the drilled hole. It seems to be a nice, snug, perfect fit.

So...now I've got my jar of genuine Alabama apple yeast starter under way!

The more I study this method, the less it seems to me that I'm using WILD yeast to ferment this batch of Apfelwein, but rather that, I'm using a yeast culture specifically adapted to ferment apples for my geographic region/climate!

How many here have been able to say THAT lately?

Pogo
 
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jay415

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Rather than peel the apple, I elected to put the whole apple itself into the solution. Actually, I tried to minimize handling the apple as much as possible in an effort to keep from removing and/or contaminating any of the yeast riding on the apples skin.
I was a little concerned about this as well, It was the peeler that concerned me. So I used a paring knife fresh out of the dishwasher. So far so good no sign of mold, or other infections.
 
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jay415

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So far so good, 3 weeks in as described too a T on the above site, I have a sweet hard cider that is about 2.358 % ABV. My OG was 1.050 and today's SG was 1.032. Very nice strong apple flavor and aroma w/ a very slight alcohol taste and light carbonation. Very sweet, not tart at all. I am going to test SG and taste weekly at this point. I want to see how low I can get the SG while still retaining some residual sweetness, apple flavor and aroma. I am shooting for 1.012 (unless it tastes too sweet). That would give me a 5% ABV cider. Then I am planning to cold crash to stop fermentation, and either drink as a fresh cider (as described on the above site), or sulfite, sorbate and force carb. So far I must say the experiment is a success. :rockin:
My wife wanted a sweet hard cider and this will probably be it. Very easy to make with great results (so far). Upon completion of this 1 gallon I am going to use the sediment to make starters for 5 or 6 gallon batches. Maybe I'll try yeast washing. like this: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=41768
 

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I really wanted to do this, but finding an organic apple right now is out of the question, as it's not very close to apple season, and I'm not out in the country. I elected for an organic peach instead, as I heard there was plenty of yeasty beasties on the skin. I peeled the skin off with a paring knife and placed it into a 1.040 sugar solution a few days ago, and threw an airlock on the bottle (12 oz newcastle bottle) in order to begin a starter which I would later pitch into some apple juice after I build it up a bit. That was 2 days ago, and already I'm seeing some foamyness and bubble activity, peaches must have a heck of a lot of yeasts on them. I just can't wait for apple season to try it out with an apple.
 

Freezeblade

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what temp you all fermenting this wild yeast at?
Mine's just at room temp, it's been fermenting right next to a little 1-gallon experimental batch I've got. The temp around here's been pretty warm, 74F-78F during the day, and it gets down to around 55-60F at night
 
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jay415

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I really wanted to do this, but finding an organic apple right now is out of the question, as it's not very close to apple season, and I'm not out in the country.
Don't you have a Trader Joes or a Whole Foods in your area? Calinfornia is flooded with them. (at least as far as their websites show) Most things are shipped in from other countries, thats how we get fruits and vegetables in the off season.
http://www.traderjoes.com/locations.asp
http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/stores/index.html

Trader Joe's
Chula Vista
878 Eastlake Parkway, Suite 810
Chula Vista, CA 91914
Trading Hours: 9 am - 9 pm
Phone: 619-656-5370

Encinitas
115 N. El Camino Real, Suite A
Encinitas, CA 92024
Trading Hours: 9 am – 9 pm
Phone: 760-634-2114

Escondido
1885 So. Centre City Pkwy., Unit “A”
Escondido, CA 92025
Trading Hours: 9 am – 9 pm
Phone: 760-233-4020

La Jolla
8657 Villa LaJolla Drive #210
La Jolla, CA 92037
Trading Hours: 9 am – 9 pm
Phone: 858-546-8629

La Mesa, CA 91942
Trading Hours: 8 am - 9 pm
Phone: 619-466-0105

Oceanside
2570 Vista Way
Oceanside, CA 92054
Trading Hours: 9 am – 9 pm
Phone: 760-433-9994

San Diego (Hillcrest)
1090 University Ste. G100-107
San Diego, CA 92103
Trading Hours: 9 am – 9 pm
Phone: 619-296-3122

San Diego (Point Loma)
2401 Truxtun Rd., Ste. 100
San Diego, CA 92106
Trading Hours: 8 am - 9 pm
Phone: 619-758-9272

San Diego (Pacific Beach)
1211 Garnet Avenue
San Diego, CA 92109
Trading Hours: 9 am – 9 pm
Phone: 858-272-7235

San Diego (Carmel Mtn. Ranch)
11955 Carmel Mtn. Rd. #702
San Diego, CA 92128
Trading Hours: 9 am – 9 pm
Phone: 858-673-0526

Whole Foods
San Diego (Hillcrest)
711 University Ave
San Diego, California 92103

La Jolla
8825 Villa La Jolla Dr
La Jolla, California 92037

what temp you all fermenting this wild yeast at?
My temp has been around a 70F-75F
 

Freezeblade

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Don't you have a Trader Joes or a Whole Foods in your area? Calinfornia is flooded with them. (at least as far as their websites show) Most things are shipped in from other countries, thats how we get fruits and vegetables in the off season.
http://www.traderjoes.com/locations.asp
http://www.wholefoodsmarket.com/stores/index.html
I haven't been to the wholefoods (even though it's right across the street from the Trader Joes in Hillcrest) but the Trader Joes hasn't had apples from as far as I can tell. They also stopped carrying the glass gallon jugs of unfiltered apple juice for $5, which is too bad, because not only was the juice good, but that was cheaper than the 1 gal glass carboys from the LHBS, which are $7 and you don't get any juice.

When apple season rolls around though, there's a huge festival up in Julian that I plan on snagging a bunch of apples and proper apple juice. much cider to make.
 
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jay415

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I haven't been to the wholefoods (even though it's right across the street from the Trader Joes in Hillcrest) but the Trader Joes hasn't had apples from as far as I can tell. They also stopped carrying the glass gallon jugs of unfiltered apple juice for $5, which is too bad, because not only was the juice good, but that was cheaper than the 1 gal glass carboys from the LHBS, which are $7 and you don't get any juice.

When apple season rolls around though, there's a huge festival up in Julian that I plan on snagging a bunch of apples and proper apple juice. much cider to make.
Yea mine stopped selling the glass jugs too. I think everyone is going to plastic. I'm shocked they don't have an apples, oh well. we'll see how the peach comes out, I am curious to see. But I'm thinking that the wild yeast on the peach will be good for fermenting peaches, but may not be good for apples. There are so many different strains of yeast, that even some yeast on apples can throw an off flavor. Sometimes naturally fermenting is a crap shoot.(from what I hear as I don't have much experience yet)
 
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jay415

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Did you do the method the guy mentioned about just adding two tbsp of sugar, or did you do something else to use as a starter?
No, he doesn't use sugar until after the first fermentation is complete. no additions were made just organic apple peel and organic apple juice(which has plenty of sugar in it). Once fermentation was complete he then saved the sediment in a 2 liter soda bottle with a little sugar to keep the yeast happy. I am not up to that yet. When I get to that point I was thinking about dumping the sediment into a 5 gallon carboy with 5 gallon of apple juice and then try yeast washing when that fermentation is complete.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=41768
 

Freezeblade

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an Update on this: I pitched my peach-yeast starter into some apple juice yesterday, and it's bubbling along merrily right now, not quite as quick as other yeasts I've used (besides cote de blanc, which seems to go kinda slow) it smells great.
 
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jay415

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an Update on this: I pitched my peach-yeast starter into some apple juice yesterday, and it's bubbling along merrily right now, not quite as quick as other yeasts I've used (besides cote de blanc, which seems to go kinda slow) it smells great.
same here 3 1/2 weeks in and its still slowly chugging along
 

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for the record, damaged apples have more wild yeast than the skin of a normal apple

( I don't mean apples fallen from the tree and laying on the ground, obviously )
 
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jay415

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So far so good, 3 weeks in as described too a T on the above site, I have a sweet hard cider that is about 2.358 % ABV. My OG was 1.050 and today's SG was 1.032. Very nice strong apple flavor and aroma w/ a very slight alcohol taste and light carbonation. Very sweet, not tart at all.
UPDATE: 4 weeks in SG only dropped .002 to 1.030 in a week, Taste report is pretty much the same as last only slightly more carbonation.
 

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Does the type of fruit really determine the type of yeast living on it? Are there really different yeasts that grow on different fruits? Here in California I have avocado, citrus, and a few various types of berries that grow in my yard that I would like to make a starter from. I have access to Trader Joe's and Whole Foods and such but I still would rather try to make this starter with some home-grown fruits. Does anyone have any idea?
 
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jay415

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Does the type of fruit really determine the type of yeast living on it? Are there really different yeasts that grow on different fruits? Here in California I have avocado, citrus, and a few various types of berries that grow in my yard that I would like to make a starter from. I have access to Trader Joe's and Whole Foods and such but I still would rather try to make this starter with some home-grown fruits. Does anyone have any idea?
It was just a guess for me, but it's always a risk with wild yeast. I'd try the berries in some apple juice. See how that comes out.
 

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Sounds like a good plan I would be interested in seeing how this works out because I would like some too I just don't have much equipment to work with and my patience is not as good as I want it to be so anything that can be made in a few weeks is good with me.Please keep us updated with your progress.
 

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I just made a starter from a tangerine peel off the tree in the back in raw organic apple juice (pasteurized). I was in the yard doing some work and I noticed a tangerine in the back that had escaped being eaten. Don't ask me how it lasted till mid-august when they ripen around February or so, but hey... went to good use. I'll keep you guys updated! Hope all goes well
 

Freezeblade

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An update on my cider done with wild yeasts on an organic peach. I let it ferment out all the way, and bottled yesterday. The yeast preformed quite quickly, ending the ferment at 0.95 in 3 weeks, leaving behind very compact lees which I washed and am keeping in the fridge. The taste from the hydrometer sample was a bit more acidic than with any other yeast I've tried with the same juice, but much rounder. I'd say that it's better than some 2-month old cider I have, it has more alcohol bite, but overall it's much more complex and interesting than the other yeasts I've tried (71B-1122, WLP720, WLP775, and Cote de Blanc). Next on the list is a organic apple from Julian (the local apple-growing area in the mountains) and an organic plum. I shall keep notes on all the wild yeasts, and perhaps start a HBT wild yeast trade, or attempt to at least.
 

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This sounds like a great way to make cider, and I'm planning on trying it soon. However, forgive a newbie question... doesn't bottling after a week run the risk of creating bottle bombs? I know that he's refrigerating after a day of carbing, but I thought would only slow fermentation, as opposed to stopping it. Or is it that after a week enough of the sugar has been consumed that there's not much left for the yeast to eat, lowering the risk of explosion? I'm sure it works out, but I was just curious.
 

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What I think he meant was that he bottled it after a week and just put it in the fridge to be consumed in the next day or two. I don't know how long it would take for them to burst but if you drank it quickly I'm sure it would be rather tasty. I plan on letting mine ferment all the way out assuming that the yeast on my tree produces tasty cider
 
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jay415

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This sounds like a great way to make cider, and I'm planning on trying it soon. However, forgive a newbie question... doesn't bottling after a week run the risk of creating bottle bombs? I know that he's refrigerating after a day of carbing, but I thought would only slow fermentation, as opposed to stopping it. Or is it that after a week enough of the sugar has been consumed that there's not much left for the yeast to eat, lowering the risk of explosion? I'm sure it works out, but I was just curious.
there is always a chance of gushers from leaving residual sugar with live yeast. So far I have found this recipe to ferment so slow that it is not much of a risk. I already went past the point the recipe states which is 3 weeks, and consumed soon after. Mine has been fermenting at about 75F for about 7 1/2 weeks and fermentation has slowed down alot...no obvious bubbles in airlock. As of 8/8/08 SG was 1.024. So this is about 3.4% ABV. I also think that is why PET (soda bottles) are recommended, you can feel them to see how they are carbonated. and chilling them down will stop fermentation.
 
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jay415

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08/08/08 SG @60F was 1.024
09/06/08 SG @60F is still 1.024
about 3.4% ABV
fermentation was from 73F-77F

looks like fermentation stopped, as for taste: still slightly sweet apple taste, but also a slight odor/taste of nail polish remover. I can't say that I could enjoy drinking this. it was definately much better at the 3 week mark as the original recipe suggested. I am going to harvest/wash the yeast from this batch and try some low alcohol 1 week cider as the recipe calls for. I may need to start from scratch again and harvest yeast from a 3 week old batch for better taste. I think this was intended to be a fresh low alcohol cider only.
 
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jay415

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Looking back at my notes I am not going past this point with this recipe:
So far so good, 3 weeks in as described too a T on the above site, I have a sweet hard cider that is about 2.358 % ABV. My OG was 1.050 and today's SG was 1.032. Very nice strong apple flavor and aroma w/ a very slight alcohol taste and light carbonation. Very sweet, not tart at all. I am going to test SG and taste weekly at this point. I want to see how low I can get the SG while still retaining some residual sweetness, apple flavor and aroma. I am shooting for 1.012 (unless it tastes too sweet). That would give me a 5% ABV cider. Then I am planning to cold crash to stop fermentation, and either drink as a fresh cider (as described on the above site), or sulfite, sorbate and force carb. So far I must say the experiment is a success. :rockin:
My wife wanted a sweet hard cider and this will probably be it. Very easy to make with great results (so far). Upon completion of this 1 gallon I am going to use the sediment to make starters for 5 or 6 gallon batches. Maybe I'll try yeast washing. like this: Yeast Washing Illustrated - Home Brew Forums
 
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jay415

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08/08/08 SG @60F was 1.024
09/06/08 SG @60F is still 1.024
about 3.4% ABV
fermentation was from 73F-77F

looks like fermentation stopped, as for taste: still slightly sweet apple taste, but also a slight odor/taste of nail polish remover. I can't say that I could enjoy drinking this. it was definately much better at the 3 week mark as the original recipe suggested. I am going to harvest/wash the yeast from this batch and try some low alcohol 1 week cider as the recipe calls for. I may need to start from scratch again and harvest yeast from a 3 week old batch for better taste. I think this was intended to be a fresh low alcohol cider only.
Ok reading on now I see I had my first infection. Ha ha maybe I'll try this again. It probably happened from constantly opening and testing.

Quote from Jack Keller's Wine making site
Fingernail Polish Remover Smell: The wine is contaminated with ethyl acetate. There are three ways a wine can become thus contaminated. (1) Ethyl alcohol and oxygen can interact to create acetaldehyde, which can react with oxygen to create acetic acid (vinegar), which in turn can react with ethyl alcohol to create ethyl acetate. This pathway can be easily shut down by preventing oxygen exposure with the wine. Since this is impossible, one can at least minimize it to what is absolutely necessary (racking, stirring, testing, bottling). This can be done by topping up adequately, using an inert gas (such as argon -- or even CO2) to sparge the new carboy of oxygen when racking, leaving the bung on the carboy except when absolutely necessary to break the seal, and keeping sulfur dioxide levels sufficiently high that no vacant molecular interstices exist for oxygen to populate. (2) Bacterial contamination of the wine (by acetobacter) can allow the creation of acetic acid, which then combines with ethyl alcohol in the wine to form ethyl acetate. The key to prevention, again, is maintaining an aseptic level of sulfur dioxide to preclude contamination and/or prevent contamination the same way oxygen exposure is prevented. (3) Finally, ethyl acetate contamination can be created by yeast under stress as well as by many bacteria besides acetobacter. In the first instance, maintaining an optimal temperature for the yeast strain employed, using a good mineral water in the must (if water is even used), yeast nutrient for non-grape wines, and a nitrogen source (Yeastex-61 or some other specialized nutrient) for yeast strains requiring ample nitrogen (see Strains of Wine Yeast) will eliminate yeast stress. In the second instance, if you follow the procedures for preventing acetobacter contamination, you will prevent the others as well.
 
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