Quick closed transfer questions

[ILMSTMF]

I've never performed a closed transfer. I now have a pressure-rated FV (Fermzilla All Rounder) and I plan to use CO2 supply to move beer from FV to keg.

1) Does it matter if there is a small height differential between keg and FV? I don't have a long liquid jumper hose. Because of that, I won't be able to get the FV (much) higher than the keg.

2) Assume the beer in FV is not carbonated. Will this be as simple as doing the following?

• Connect gas supply to FV and charge to 5 psi.
• Connect jumper hose liquid QD to liquid post on FV lid.
• Connect other end of jumper's QD to liquid post of keg.
• Open PRV of keg. Beer moves.

Thanks in advance!

 

[NTBeer]

I've only been kegging for a few months (5 batches) but my experience is....

1) No, as long as you are using pressure. If you want to start with pressure and finish with a siphon, then yes.

2) Yes. Keep in mind that as the liquid leaves the FV, the volume drops and so does the pressure. In the keg, the pressure rises with the liquid as the headspace gets compressed. So you may need to release pressure in the keg a couple times and/or give the FV another shot of co2 at some point.

 

[firerat]

Instead of using the ring to release pressure, use a gas disconnect on the in of the receiving keg.

 

[Jim R]

1. I just buy cheap vinyl tubing at the hardware store (the stuff they sell for plumbing the ice maker in a refrigerator - 10 ft for $2-3) for a jumper hose from my fermenter elevated on a counter to my keg on the floor to take advantage of gravity. I then only need 1-2 psi in the fermenter. I sanitize the tubing before using it but often just throw the short piece away instead of cleaning it since it is so cheap.

 

[ILMSTMF]

1) No, as long as you are using pressure. If you want to start with pressure and finish with a siphon, then yes.

CO2 supply for the whole transfer. Good to go.

So you may need to release pressure in the keg a couple times and/or give the FV another shot of co2 at some point.

Instead of using the ring to release pressure, use a gas disconnect on the in of the receiving keg.

What if I did this...

• Connect gas supply to FV and charge to 5 psi.
• Connect jumper hose liquid QD to liquid post on FV lid.
• Connect other end of jumper's QD to liquid post of keg.
• Disconnect gas supply from FV post.
• Release all pressure in keg with PRV.
• Connect gas jumper hose with QDs on each side - first to keg then to pressurized FV. Beer moves. CO2 supply is saved (by implementing the "gas loop"), but will this 1) be slower than constant CO2 supply 2) require height between vessels?

Thanks!

 

[DVCNick]

Yes, you have the general concept right. Since you are using pressure, the height differential is basically irrelevant. Some things that have helped me:

1) Of course you want a liquid purged keg on the receiving side to make sure there is practically zero O2 exposure or the whole exercise is mostly pointless.
2) You want the pressure differential between the fermenter and the receiving keg to be small. Doesn't really matter as much what the absolute numbers are as long as you keep the differential between the two at less than about 4psi. This will lead to a slow transfer. This is what you want, in order to avoid foaming.
3) If you have dry hops in there, and any ability to cold crash the fermenter, I would do that first to greatly reduce the probability of getting poppets clogged with hops.
4) Since the lid on the keg is closed, you will need a way to determine volume accurately and stop at 5 gallons. For my Fermentasaurus I use the volume marker tape that came with it, put a sticky note at exactly the five gallons out marker, and stop there. Hopefully you have this installed on yours. If not, the best way is probably going to be to go by weight.

 

[DVCNick]

CO2 supply for the whole transfer. Good to go.





What if I did this...

• Connect gas supply to FV and charge to 5 psi.
• Connect jumper hose liquid QD to liquid post on FV lid.
• Connect other end of jumper's QD to liquid post of keg.
• Disconnect gas supply from FV post.
• Release all pressure in keg with PRV.
• Connect gas jumper hose with QDs on each side - first to keg then to pressurized FV. Beer moves. CO2 supply is saved (by implementing the "gas loop"), but will this 1) be slower than constant CO2 supply 2) require height between vessels?

Thanks!

If you do this, you'll have to rely on siphon action and the FV will have to be higher than the receiving keg.

I would just leave the C02 supply connected and set to a low number under 5psi. Then release gas slowly from the receiving keg. I use a spunding valve since it lets me see the pressure on the receiving side, but if the FV side pressure is low enough, using the PRV valve or an open gas disconnect will be fine.

 

[ILMSTMF]

1) Of course you want a liquid purged keg on the receiving side to make sure there is practically zero O2 exposure or the whole exercise is mostly pointless.

Already done. ;-)

2) You want the pressure differential between the fermenter and the receiving keg to be small. Doesn't really matter as much what the absolute numbers are as long as you keep the differential between the two at less than about 4psi. This will lead to a slow transfer. This is what you want, in order to avoid foaming.

So, 5 psi on the FV CO2 supply pressure and 3 psi on the receiving keg OK? I suppose I could figure out a way to set spunding valve to 3 and attach that to the keg...

I would just leave the C02 supply connected and set to a low number under 5psi. Then release gas slowly from the receiving keg. I use a spunding valve since it lets me see the pressure on the receiving side, but if the FV side pressure is low enough, using the PRV valve or an open gas disconnect will be fine.

Or I could just follow these steps and be done with it. 4-ish psi CO2 supply on FV, gas QD on receiving keg to vent as beer flows in. No height concerns. Done.

3) If you have dry hops in there, and any ability to cold crash the fermenter, I would do that first to greatly reduce the probability of getting poppets clogged with hops.

Excellent point! For this one, no dry hops are employed. And I'll be crashing anyway, as always.

4) Since the lid on the keg is closed, you will need a way to determine volume accurately and stop at 5 gallons. For my Fermentasaurus I use the volume marker tape that came with it, put a sticky note at exactly the five gallons out marker, and stop there. Hopefully you have this installed on yours. If not, the best way is probably going to be to go by weight.

On this new FV, I am very grateful to have the volume marking tape included. Coming from an opaque bucket where full volume markings were there but...couldn't see through to judge how much of it was trub... This clear vessel with "tweener volume" markings is a game changer. Love your idea about a sticky note to mark the low point.
Whatever can't fit in keg, I'll have to figure out how to get from FV to growler(s). Sort of on-topic...

 

[DVCNick]

Sounds good.
Pressure numbers are of course not an exact science so you'll have to find what works for you, but when I do it I'm looking for a flow rate that will take at least 15 minutes to do the transfer. There isn't really any rush since there is no oxygen exposure happening.

Of course ymmv on this too, but I used to try to bottle any extra, however, due to the trouble of having to break out the picnic tap, sanitize bottles, caps, capper, priming sugar, blah blah, all for usually about 6 beers of hit or miss quality due to oxidation, I usually now just dump it and make sure my volumes are adjusted for next time.
I guess you could do it right with a beer gun.

 

[ILMSTMF]

I guess you could do it right with a beer gun.

HUH!!! I have a Blichmann beer gun, never used. And a pressure-rated vessel... Got me thinking now.
Sorry, there's no way I'm dumping any excess...unless it's only a pint.