Questions on filling/carbonating a Sanke keg

[gregmosu]

I just purchased a couple of used Sanke kegs for homebrewing. Mostly because we have a distributor up the road and they sold them to me for $30 a piece. Anyways, I got them apart and cleaned them. I have them both filled and put back together and cooling down in the fridge. My next step is connecting the CO2 and carbing them up.

FIRST: My setup... I have a double gage regulator connected to my CO2 bottle. Due to the somewhat large size of the barbed fitting of the gas inlet on my connection coupler, I bought what looks to be 1/4 inch reinforced gas line from a local hardware store(the LHBS did not have any gas line yesterday). Now I'm reading that my beer will likely be super foamy if I use a line of this size. Do I go back and get 3/16" line and jam it on that barbed fitting? If so, what are the recommended lengths as far as going from the tank to each shutoff valve.. then from the shutoff valve to my keg?

SECOND: I've watched a number of videos on force carbonation, but I'm still not sure of the best way to carbonate this beer. I'm in no hurry and I don't want to ruin 10 gallons of homebrew. What is the best method for slowly and safely carbonating beer in a sanke keg.

I also have concerned on how to use a sanke keg and properly tap it. Most instructional videos are on how to use a corni keg. After I tap a sanke keg, will I be safe not having any lines hooked up as long as the 'lever' is up? or will the beer flow out of the gas inlet(assuming I'm working with carbonated beer)?

 

[tooldudetool]

First, CO2 line diameter makes no difference, its the liquid line going from the keg to the tap that needs be be the 3/16" and long enough to provide enough resistance to prevent foaming. The CO2 is going to be at whatever pressure you set the regulator at regardless of line size. 12 psi is 12 psi whether it is going through a 1/4" line or a garden hose.

With force carbing you can either "set it and forget it" at 12 psi or whatever CO2 volumes your beer needs, or you can take the chilled keg, set the regulator at 25 psi or so, then shake the crap out of it for 5-10 minutes until the regulator stops the CO2 flow. People will tell you the first way is the only "correct" way to do it, but I always do it the second way and I'm very happy with the results.

I think once you deal with these kegs a few times, you will realize why everybody prefers the cornie kegs. For one thing the big opening makes them much easier to clean and rack beer into. Also having separate beer and CO2 posts makes it easy to disconnect one and not the other. Beer should not come out once you've disconnected the Sanke coupler, since both the liquid and gas connections are only made with the handle down and engaged.

 

[gregmosu]

First, CO2 line diameter makes no difference, its the liquid line going from the keg to the tap that needs be be the 3/16" and long enough to provide enough resistance to prevent foaming. The CO2 is going to be at whatever pressure you set the regulator at regardless of line size. 12 psi is 12 psi whether it is going through a 1/4" line or a garden hose. .

This makes sense. In that other post, it didn't make sense that a smaller gas line would have that kind of effect.

With force carbing you can either "set it and forget it" at 12 psi or whatever CO2 volumes your beer needs, or you can take the chilled keg, set the regulator at 25 psi or so, then shake the crap out of it for 5-10 minutes until the regulator stops the CO2 flow. People will tell you the first way is the only "correct" way to do it, but I always do it the second way and I'm very happy with the results.

Maybe I'll try to force carb one of these batches. What happens if I over carbonate? Release the CO2 and try again?

I think once you deal with these kegs a few times, you will realize why everybody prefers the cornie kegs. For one thing the big opening makes them much easier to clean and rack beer into. Also having separate beer and CO2 posts makes it easy to disconnect one and not the other. Beer should not come out once you've disconnected the Sanke coupler, since both the liquid and gas connections are only made with the handle down and engaged.

I agree. getting apart and cleaning was a hassle. But I've already invested in couplers and this way it makes it easy to go get a keg from the distributor and fit it right into my system.

 

[gregmosu]

Ok, just about ready to get things rolling today.

1) I have some star san that I left sitting in the keg over night. Should I hook up the CO2 and push this through the system to clean everything?

2) Once I fill the keg, do I need to fill it up w/CO2 and bleed it off a couple of times just to make sure the oxygen is all out?

 

[tooldudetool]

Yeah, if you overcarbonate, just pull the relief valve and let some of the CO2 come out of solution into the headspace.

Yes, you do want the liquid line dip tube to be sanitized, so make sure you push it through the system.

Yes, I usually let CO2 run into it for about 8 seconds, then pull the relief valve, and repeat the process 4-5 times to purge the keg with CO2.

I thought in the original post you said the kegs were already filled and cooling down? I only ask because I was wondering how you went about filling them. In breweries they use CO2 to push the beer out of the conditioning tank into the liquid line, while keeping the keg CO2 connection open (with a small section of hose with a ball valve on it), that way once the keg is full of beer it starts spitting out the CO2 line and they can valve it off and remove the coupler. One of the advantages of the cornie keg is the large opening that you can simply stick your racking cane into. I suppose you can gravity feed into the liquid line connection directly, but I can see it being a bit of a challenge. Best of luck!

 

[gregmosu]

I thought in the original post you said the kegs were already filled and cooling down? I only ask because I was wondering how you went about filling them. In breweries they use CO2 to push the beer out of the conditioning tank into the liquid line, while keeping the keg CO2 connection open (with a small section of hose with a ball valve on it), that way once the keg is full of beer it starts spitting out the CO2 line and they can valve it off and remove the coupler. One of the advantages of the cornie keg is the large opening that you can simply stick your racking cane into. I suppose you can gravity feed into the liquid line connection directly, but I can see it being a bit of a challenge. Best of luck!

Well, I jumped the gun a little on that post. I posted w/the intention of kegging the beer and then coming back in to see if I had any replies. After filling one keg, I got nervous and decided not to do the other one until I soaked it in star san overnight(based on advice I read in another thread). To keg the one batch, I opened the top of the keg and siphoned it in. Maybe I need to do a little searching on youtube. The videos I watched, the guys just took out the ball valve and spear and siphoned it in.

 

[gregmosu]

Ok, so I just force carbed the first keg(pale ale) and each glass is nothing but foam. I bled out all the CO2 and then turned the regulator to 5psi. I let it sit for 10 or 20 minutes and the beer line is completely empty. I open the tap and after I finally get beer out, it still flies out and it's foam!!

The line is about 3 feet long and these days, I can't really tell the difference between 3/16 and 1/4 inch.

Any ideas how to fix this?

 

[chickypad]

If you carbed in a day I assume you took the advice to turn the pressure up and then shook it? That could be problem #1, you may need to degas it. 1/4" lines would certainly also be an issue, but even with 3/16" line 3 ft is likely way too short. I'd say get 10 ft or so of 3/16" line and consider carbing with set and forget method next time, or do something like 30 psi for a day then back it down to equilibrium pressure. In principle I'm not a fan of the shaking method, it can work if you have experience but seems like it creates a lot more problems.

 

[gregmosu]

If you carbed in a day I assume you took the advice to turn the pressure up and then shook it? That could be problem #1, you may need to degas it. 1/4" lines would certainly also be an issue, but even with 3/16" line 3 ft is likely way too short. I'd say get 10 ft or so of 3/16" line and consider carbing with set and forget method next time, or do something like 30 psi for a day then back it down to equilibrium pressure. In principle I'm not a fan of the shaking method, it can work if you have experience but seems like it creates a lot more problems.

I degased it all the way down to nothing. I then opened the tap and slowly turned the screw on the regulator until the CO2 finally filled up enough to force the beer out. When it came out, it flew out!! I"m guessing I won't be able to solve this until I get smaller/longer beer line.

 

[chickypad]

Probably not, but the beer itself may also still be overcarbonated. Does your coupler have a relief valve? If so turn off the gas and pull the relief valve every time you think of it for a while.

 

[gregmosu]

I kept degassing as suggested, and every time I pulled the relief valve today, very little came out. I turned the gas on and set it to about 7psi. It's better, but still comes out of the tap VERY quickly and I still get too much foam. I also switched to 12 feet of 5/16 inner diam. tubing.

I'm letting the other beer that I just kegged carb up slowly over the course of a week.

Also, what is the appropriate PSI for a pale ale? I keep reading 12 psi is about the average. With a setting of 7 on my regulator right now, will my other batch ever carb up?

 

[chickypad]

I also switched to 12 feet of 5/16 inner diam. tubing.

Hopefully you mean 3/16" ID. Pressure is dependent on the carb level and temperature, use this chart. I like to keep my system about 2.6 vols which works for most of the beers I drink.

 

[gregmosu]

Hopefully you mean 3/16" ID. Pressure is dependent on the carb level and temperature, use this chart. I like to keep my system about 2.6 vols which works for most of the beers I drink.

Yes!! Sorry, I used 3/16" ID. A couple things...

I don't have a real kegerator. It's just an old fridge with all the selves out and my beer line is just coiled around the top of the keg. What I've noticed is that the line gets bubbles in it that cause problems when I pour. If I hold the tap up high, I can vent the bubbles before pouring. Is this normal?

Also, I just read up on balancing a system, and according to that, I shouldn't be able to push beer through the line this rapidly w/only 7psi. Is there a chance my regulator is off and I have much more pressure than I think?