Question: Rhizome Barriers?

[$bill]

I have a bunch of rhizomes that I need to get into the ground. There are eight in all: Cascade, Centennial (x2), Fuggle, Goldings, Magnum, Nugget, and Zeus/CTZ.

Here's where I want to plant four or five of them:

I'm thinking to put them about a foot or two from the low brick wall. This is at the southern end of my property, so it gets good sun almost all day long.

The grass has some bermuda grass mixed in, and I'm thinking it might be wise to use some 5 gallon buckets with the bottom cut out as rhizome barriers, both to keep the hops out of the grass and the bermuda grass out of the hops.

I was thinking I'd dig out some holes that are big enough for the bottomless buckets, which I would fill with miracle gro, hops, and maybe some compost.

Do you saavy, experienced hop growers think the hops will bypass the buckets, eventually? Or do I need to even bother with the buckets?

I like low maintenance. The thought of having to constantly pull bermuda grass runners from the hops and vice-versa is very unappealing.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

 

[buzzkill]

the grass will get in the buckets,and the hops will get in the yard. just plant them in the ground. you can prun the roots with a shovel every year.

 

[B-Hoppy]

the hops will not take over your yard unless you discontinue mowing because the mower blade will 'whack' off the hops, keeping them in check. if you stop, there's always the potential for them to rear their 'ugly' heads. in theory, the buckets sound like they'd work. that's how i've been able to maintain my horseradish. keeping the stolons from the bermuda out will be a bigger challenge, unless something like 'Round-up' will work on that type of grass(it's been a long time since turf school and i never really cared for 'warm - season' grasses). one other point, make sure to plant the rhizomes VERTICALLY as they are easier to keep in check that way. good luck.

 

[homebeerbrewer]

I don't know about the grass, but a bucket will keep the hops contained. They usually only go down about 5-6 inches. Leave a few inches of the bucket above ground as well as cutting the bottom off as close to the bottom as you can.

Also, make sure you have something really tall that they can climb. They'll grow to 30 feet.

 

[Randar]

rhizome barriers will work. Be aware that hops send tap roots down much deeper than this, but the rhizome runners will be within the top 12 " of soil. Like with bamboo, the runners will try to go down and under a barrier but will stop around 12 ". Personally, if I was going to go through the trouble, I would probably want something down at least 18"

I have seen people use culvert pipe and the like that is 24+ inches in diameter. This would certainly give more room for the rhizomes to grow and establish a root system. Be wary of something so small as a 5 gal pail. That is really small unless you're willing to replace it with something bigger in 2 years. Those guys probably will not be very happy confined in such a small space.

 

[Weezknight]

Anyone ever try to use weed fabric?

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Why not go up rather than down? A corrugated steel raised bed garden 4foot by 50 foot by 18 Inches cost me $50 in materials for the framework. Soil was much more.

 

[Randar]

Anyone ever try to use weed fabric?

You mean that black or gray fabric you put down under mulch to prevent weeds?

That stuff won't work, I assure you (doesn't work to prevent things like raspberries or blackberries from coming up through them). If you are interested, you need to look for rhizome barriers used for bamboo. They are most similar to hops in terms of pervasiveness and rhizome propagation.

 

[Randar]

Why not go up rather than down? A corrugated steel raised bed garden 4foot by 50 foot by 18 Inches cost me $50 in materials for the framework. Soil was much more.

You have a point there too. taking care of mowing around buckets or culvert pipe will be a PITA too. Probably easier to maintain a rectangular structure.

I still say KISS. Plant them with nice 24" or larger diameter mounds and then dig them up every 2 years to trim the crown and remove bermuda that has invaded.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

You mean that black or gray fabric you put down under mulch to prevent weeds?

That stuff won't work, I assure you (doesn't work to prevent things like raspberries or blackberries from coming up through them). If you are interested, you need to look for rhizome barriers used for bamboo. They are most similar to hops in terms of pervasiveness and rhizome propagation.

Ayup. And even those can be a pin to install. You have to lay them in at an angle to force the rhisomes upward rather than down.

FWIW, weed barriers don;t even work for weeds.

 

[Randar]

Ayup. And even those can be a pin to install. You have to lay them in at an angle to force the rhisomes upward rather than down.

Yeah, a 30"-36" diameter culvert pipe would probably be my preference if I was going to try to contain things. You can pick one up at any big box store special ordered from the contractor desk.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

there used to be a product by Ornamec called "Over the Top". It was a 2 part Bermuda grass selective specific enzymatic killer. Whats more is it can be apoplied to a specific pattern as well meaning you can spray it on grass invading a garden bed but it won;t kill the grass outside of the bed (unless you sprayed on a windy day).

I recall some time ago seeing that it's no longer made by Ornamec and that Fert-Lome bought the patent. So, I am not sure who makes it now but the product is still called "Over the top Bermuda grass killer".

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Yeah, a 30"-36" diameter culvert pipe would probably be my preference if I was going to try to contain things. You can pick one up at any big box store special ordered from the contractor desk.

Yeah. I hadn't thought of those until AFTER I had moved 10 yards of soil, one .6 yard wheel barrow at a time into the rectangular bed I have now.

 

[Retrofit]

I think Randar's advice is Grade A. I think if it's not at LEAST 12" deep your rhizome is going to work it's way under a barrier and peak up eventually. My barrier has already failed and I already know that next year I will have to dig up my rhizomes and cut them back.

In the spirit of Keep it simple. The simplestest thing to do is not put the work in trying to make a barrier. Instead ONCE every THREE years dig up your hops, cut back the rhizome, and sell your scraps on Craigslist for money.

 

[$bill]

I appreciate the advice.

I think I'm going to try the bottomless buckets. For one thing, they're in stock now and they only cost $2.50 each. They're tall enough to leave a few inches above the ground to protect the hops from the string trimmer that the gardener will use on the grass (after the sudden appearance of the hops which will prevent him from mowing close to the low brick wall).

My plan is to dig into my clay soil, down to 18" or thereabouts, install the buckets, and fill the holes with Miracle-Gro.

The rhizomes are already sprouting, so I need to get moving on this.

 

[winstonofbeer]

I found some 10.5gal buckets.
Drilled holes in the bottom of the bucket for drainage.
Reason for that, Bottomless buckets...What prevents tap roots going down and back out...Smaller holes might make it more of a challenge for them.
My plan is every year pull the buckets out of the ground and trim them back if need be.
Mixed my garden soil with some soil i bought.

So, With luck my plan will work. At the end of the year if they have roots growing out the bottom and into my garden, I was thinking of getting more of the 10.5 gal buckets and cutting the bottom of the the 1st bucket and slipping it into the next bucket and bolting them together....Would be more than deep enough...

Only drawback i can see in the future is the roots just balling around and around the inside the bucket and getting root bound.

Time well tell.