Question about sparging

[RegionalChaos]

I've been toying with the idea building a two vessel system. Mostly thinking about cost and space savings I guess. The tricky part of it for me is looking at the sparging aspect. (I haven't made the leap to AG yet btw.) I know there is the Brutus 2.0 route, where after the mash the full volume is circulated until the the wort all has the same gravity, so that's an option. And I see where some people cheat (not really two vessel) and collect their runnings in a different vessel, continuing to use the BK as an HLT until they are done sparging. I don't really like that option for some reason though. I think I've read of one or two setups where the brewer just isn't sparging, and tops off their first runnings with water until they hit their target gravity or volume, etc.. But I had a slightly different idea that I wanted to run by you fine folks. What if I mashed with the typical ratio, and then at the end of the mash, topped the MT off with the remainder of the volume of water I need? So after my hour, without draining the MT, add however many gallons of water, then drain my MT. Maybe stop draining half way though and mix it up and let it sit for a few minutes (ala a batch sparge) then finish draining.. Would this end up pulling more sugar in?

 

[Northcalais40]

No, that would be most similar to a no sparge, or brew in the bag. The idea with sparging is to rinse the sugar from the grain. The way you describe would certainly work fine. But you would be leaving behind sugar that could be gotten by other means.

With batch sparging, you mash at your chosen ratio, then when done, run off the sugary wort. This will be highly concentrated (like ~1.090 for 1.25qt/lb) wort. Then you add sparge water all at once (in a batch) and stir like hell. This dilutes the liquid in the grain to a lesser concentration (like I don't know, 1.030?) and you run that off. You can do it again if you want for higher efficiency.

With Fly sparging, you mash as before, then as you begin to drain the wort, you begin to add the sparge water. You continually rinse until you have your boil volume. This way you start out with the same high concentration, and it gradually diminishes. My last brew went from 1.090 down to 1.012 over 6.5 gallons.

Basically, the more sugary the last bit of run off from your tun, the less efficient is your lauter. You can easily make up for low efficiency with a bit more base malt.

Give your idea a whirl, you can tweak it on the next brew. My two cents is to get two pots of 7 gallons or more, and a cooler for an MLT. For less than $100 if your crafty.

 

[rambler]

Exactly!

 

[RegionalChaos]

Is there a perceptible taste difference if you take your first runnings, then top off with water until you hit the SG and volume you want? I feel like there wouldn't be, but I also feel better about running all my brewing water through the grains in some form of sparge. I'm not a fan of the Brutus 20 sparging method, since it recircs after mash for 45 minutes to an hour to dial in a uniform gravity. This makes me lean more and more to using a third vessel I was hoping to escape from the space and cost of fittings, etc..

 

[RegionalChaos]

Can you use your herms coil to ramp up temps in an OK way? Maybe I could drain off my first runnings into my boil kettle (which has a hex) and heat it to 180 or whatever, then fill my MLT with the rest of my water, then recirc that through the hex until it raises temp, then drain into BK with the rest.. Or... at end of mash drain heated sparge water into my old 7.5 gal pot, drain the MLT into the BK, dump the sparge water from the 3rd vessel, into the MLT. Mix it up and let it sit for 10 or so, then drain that into the BK.. That might be the best bet so far.. hm....

 

[Pivovar_Koucky]

Can you use your herms coil to ramp up temps in an OK way? Maybe I could drain off my first runnings into my boil kettle (which has a hex) and heat it to 180 or whatever, then fill my MLT with the rest of my water, then recirc that through the hex until it raises temp, then drain into BK with the rest.. Or... at end of mash drain heated sparge water into my old 7.5 gal pot, drain the MLT into the BK, dump the sparge water from the 3rd vessel, into the MLT. Mix it up and let it sit for 10 or so, then drain that into the BK.. That might be the best bet so far.. hm....

If you have 2 pots just batch sparge. It's really, really easy.

 

[RegionalChaos]

I'm gonna try this to start out with I think:

At end of mash drain heated sparge water into my old 7.5 gal pot, drain the MLT into the BK, dump the sparge water from the 3rd vessel, into the MLT. Mix it up and let it sit for 10 or so, then drain that into the BK.

Too bad though... It brings in that 3rd pot and will eventually make me want to buy and install a sight gauge, thermometer, ball valve.... Was trying to avoid that

 

[Pivovar_Koucky]

I'm gonna try this to start out with I think:

At end of mash drain heated sparge water into my old 7.5 gal pot, drain the MLT into the BK, dump the sparge water from the 3rd vessel, into the MLT. Mix it up and let it sit for 10 or so, then drain that into the BK.

Too bad though... It brings in that 3rd pot and will eventually make me want to buy and install a sight gauge, thermometer, ball valve.... Was trying to avoid that

A ball valve on the boil kettle is really nice if you are using a chiller. The other things are not necessary at all.

 

[devilishprune]

I think that you're overcomplicating things. If you have a pot then all you need is a cooler and a bucket. This is exactly what I have.

1. Heat up water in the kettle.
2. Mash with this water.
3. Heat up more water in kettle.
4. Drain mash to bucket.
5. Add water to sparge, dump first runnings in kettle, runoff into bucket.

Simple, and a bucket is like $2.50

 

[Northcalais40]

I think that you're overcomplicating things. If you have a pot then all you need is a cooler and a bucket. This is exactly what I have.

1. Heat up water in the kettle.
2. Mash with this water.
3. Heat up more water in kettle.
4. Drain mash to bucket.
5. Add water to sparge, dump first runnings in kettle, runoff into bucket.

Simple, and a bucket is like $2.50

I agree with this guy or gal.

 

[RegionalChaos]

I think that you're overcomplicating things. If you have a pot then all you need is a cooler and a bucket. This is exactly what I have.

1. Heat up water in the kettle.
2. Mash with this water.
3. Heat up more water in kettle.
4. Drain mash to bucket.
5. Add water to sparge, dump first runnings in kettle, runoff into bucket.

Simple, and a bucket is like $2.50

That's basically what my current plan is moving forward, except instead of draining the mash into the bucket, I'll drain the HLT/BK into my old kettle. Then drain the Mash into the HLT/BK. Then dump the hot water from the old kettle into the mash and do a single batch sparge.

 

[Northcalais40]

Check out dennybrew.com. It is a great one page description with photos showing a complete batch sparge brew day.