Question about mashing and sparging.

[WaltG]

Ok, really new to this, on my 3rd 1-gallon batch.

So what I've been doing is heating 3 quarts and of water to 170 and put in a muslin bag with my grains stirring every 15 min for 1 hour keeping temp between 145 and 155.

I then pull out the muslin bag and place it in a colander which i place on top of the kettle. Then I pour through about 2 quarts of 170 degree water to sparge.

I then boil for an hour, add my hops, etc.

My question is should I be using the water I mashed my grains in or do I dump it and only use the sparging water?

Sorry for the noob question and thank you for your help.

 

[Ryush806]

Ok, really new to this, on my 3rd 1-gallon batch. So what I've been doing is heating 3 quarts and of water to 170 and put in a muslin bag with my grains stirring every 15 min for 1 hour keeping temp between 145 and 155. I then pull out the muslin bag and place it in a colander which i place on top of the kettle. Then I pour through about 2 quarts of 170 degree water to sparge. I then boil for an hour, add my hops, etc. My question is should I be using the water I mashed my grains in or do I dump it and only use the sparging water? Sorry for the noob question and thank you for your help.

Yes use the mash water. That's where most of your extracted sugars are. The sparge water only rinses the leftovers off the grain to get a little more sugar.

 

[WaltG]

Awesome. I watch videos on youtube but many of them skip parts they assume you already know.

I more question. I've been using muslin bag. Will a better mesh bag let less sediment get through?

 

[Ryush806]

Awesome. I watch videos on youtube but many of them skip parts they assume you already know. I more question. I've been using muslin bag. Will a better mesh bag let less sediment get through?

Probably. I've not done any beer like that but it stands to reason that you'll get less sediment breakthrough. I'd be careful going too fine though as you might get plugged up.

 

[firestem4]

I use a nylon grain sack which is a lot more fine than a muslin bag. No pieces of the crushed grains (other than grain powder) is able to get through, but plenty of water can get through to mash with the grains. I just tie an end closed and lay the whole thing in my mash/kettle. They're a little constricted but it works and I've had no issues with conversion so far. I think the biggest issue by far, is ensuring the grains are spread out and submerged so everything mashes (Make sure your mash water/grain ratio isn't too thick)

 

[BigRapidsBrewingCompany]

I would also be a little careful of your temperatures. 170 is a bit high for mashing. If you want a sweet beer, mash at 148-150 for longer periods of time to get more easily fermentable sugars out of it. If you want a more dry beer with heavier body, mash 155-158. Most brewers mash at 152-154 to activate both of the enzymes (alpha amylase and beta amylase) equally. I know it's not totally relevant to the thread but it's a tip for a new brewer! Sparge around 170 to start denaturing the enzymes. You will get much more alcohol and body from the beer at the 152 degree point than 170!

Cheers!

 

[RM-MN]

I would also be a little careful of your temperatures. 170 is a bit high for mashing. If you want a sweet beer, mash at 148-150 for longer periods of time to get more easily fermentable sugars out of it. If you want a more dry beer with heavier body, mash 155-158. Most brewers mash at 152-154 to activate both of the enzymes (alpha amylase and beta amylase) equally. I know it's not totally relevant to the thread but it's a tip for a new brewer! Sparge around 170 to start denaturing the enzymes. You will get much more alcohol and body from the beer at the 152 degree point than 170!

Cheers!

Oops, flip those 2 around. Mashing low activates the beta amylase which makes more short chain sugars which are more fermentable leading to drier beer. Mashing high deactivates the beta amylase quickly and favors the alpha amylase which results in more long chain sugars that aren't as fermentable leading to a more malty, full bodied beer. At 170 both alpha and beta amylase are quickly destroyed and all conversion stops. That's why people who fly sparge will raise the mash to that temperature, to stop the conversion where they want it.

 

[unionrdr]

Yeah,that's what I do basically. Mashing at 170 will kill the mash pretty quick. I mash between 152-156 generally,depending on the style of beer. But I upped the sparge temp to 170F,thinking this might give clearer beer in conjunction with the super moss.

 

[mjackson]

Are you mashing at 170 or is that just your strike temperature? I think depending on your grain bill and the ambient temp, then I could see doughing in with 170 strike to stabilize to about 155-156ish mash.

 

[unionrdr]

It just seems to me the initial 170F temp would kill the enzymes fairly quickly. I get the mash water up to the temp I want & stir in the grains quickly,cover & wrap it up for the mash.

 

[mjackson]

Yeah you're wrong. I have used 170+ strike water many times with no problem. The temperature of the water isn't really that big of deal as long as the grain/water mix stabilizes within your required mashing temps. If i added 170 degree strike to grain that was like 140 already yeah we might have a problem.

I will say that 170 for a 1 gallon batch would be pushing it suspension on the size of the grain bill but I guess under certain circumstances it is possible.

 

[unionrdr]

I just don't think it's a good habit to keep on doing. Why tempt fate with high temps like that? If you had to pre-heat a cooler mash tun,I'd understand. but in a kettle &/or with biab,I wouldn't trust it.

 

[DrWill]

Yeah you're wrong. I have used 170+ strike water many times with no problem. The temperature of the water isn't really that big of deal as long as the grain/water mix stabilizes within your required mashing temps. If i added 170 degree strike to grain that was like 140 already yeah we might have a problem.

I will say that 170 for a 1 gallon batch would be pushing it suspension on the size of the grain bill but I guess under certain circumstances it is possible.

You're confusing strike temp with mash temp. The comment to which you were responding was saying that a 170°F+ _mash_ temp would be a problem.

 

[mjackson]

So what I've been doing is heating 3 quarts and of water to 170 and put in a muslin bag with my grains stirring every 15 min for 1 hour keeping temp between 145 and 155.

Sounds like the OP is describing a strike temperature of 170 and a mashing temperature of 145-155. I don't think I have confused anything according to the OP.

 

[mjackson]

And I agreed with the the fact that 170 would be too high to mash at. I don't understand why the post about mashing at 170 even was made since no one said they were mashing at that temp.

 

[DrWill]

Sounds like the OP is describing a strike temperature of 170 and a mashing temperature of 145-155. I don't think I have confused anything according to the OP.

Sorry mjackson. Got the wrong quote. That wasn't directed at you.

The point is the same one that everyone else is making; 170° *must* refer to strike temp because your enzymes will start to denature (one can't kill enzymes, they're not alive) at higher temps. But just doughing in at 170° isn't going to denature your enzymes.

 

[unionrdr]

What got me was it sounds like he's stiring in the grains @ 170F. Wouldn't that be a buzz kill in regard to the enzymes? It seems to me the info on mashing,etc tends to regard that temp to be too high at the point the grains are added?...

 

[mjackson]

What got me was it sounds like he's stiring in the grains @ 170F. Wouldn't that be a buzz kill in regard to the enzymes? It seems to me the info on mashing,etc tends to regard that temp to be too high at the point the grains are added?...

No, adding gains to 170 to allow to equalize at a lower temp won't kill enzymes. If he were to hold the mash temp at 170 that would be a problem. Like i said I have doughed in with 170 before to get a mash temp of 156. The temperature drops so drastically once the grain is added it's really not even 170 for much time at all.

 

[DrWill]

What got me was it sounds like he's stiring in the grains @ 170F. Wouldn't that be a buzz kill in regard to the enzymes? It seems to me the info on mashing,etc tends to regard that temp to be too high at the point the grains are added?...

Not at all. I completely see what you're saying, but the temperature evens out so quickly that it isn't really a concern. You would have to hold your mash at 170° for a considerable period of time before there were any discernible denaturing of the enzymes. They are actually much more resilient than one might think.

 

[DrWill]

In other words, exactly what mjackson just said.

 

[mjackson]

Don't forget everyone equipment is different as well. What works for some may not work the same for others.

 

[unionrdr]

I heat my mash water to,say 156F & stir in my grains on the stove. It doesn't take long at all for the temp to come back up & start climbing. A couple minutes maybe,& the dial is only on "6". Hence my concern.

 

[DrWill]

I heat my mash water to,say 156F & stir in my grains on the stove. It doesn't take long at asll for the temp to come back up & start climbing. A couple minutes maybe,& the dial is only on "6". Hence my concern.

I use a cooler as a mashtun, so I don't have the ability to heat it up except by adding additional water (which would be boiling!) Your method is definitely fine, as long as you're not worried about scorching your mash. It sounds like you're heating it pretty gently, so that probably wouldn't be a concern. The infusion method works fine, too.

 

[mjackson]

I heat my mash water to,say 156F & stir in my grains on the stove. It doesn't take long at asll for the temp to come back up & start climbing. A couple minutes maybe,& the dial is only on "6". Hence my concern.

Okay that's your process, and there is.jpg wrong with it. AS Long as the OP allied the mash to drop and equalize to three desired mash temp all should be good.

I write my number two starting at the top. You probably write yours starting at the bottom. At the end of the day wetter both wrote perfectly good number twos, we just did it differently.

 

[unionrdr]

Okay that's your process, and there is.jpg wrong with it. AS Long as the OP allied the mash to drop and equalize to three desired mash temp all should be good.

I write my number two starting at the top. You probably write yours starting at the bottom. At the end of the day wetter both wrote perfectly good number twos, we just did it differently.

Your words are a bit cryptic,but I think I get your meaning...

 

[DrWill]

Okay that's your process, and there is.jpg wrong with it. AS Long as the OP allied the mash to drop and equalize to three desired mash temp all should be good.

I write my number two starting at the top. You probably write yours starting at the bottom. At the end of the day wetter both wrote perfectly good number twos, we just did it differently.

Nope. Clearly I am right and you are wrong. That's because I am absolutely perfect and have never made a mistake. As mentioned elsewhere, I also fart rainbows. ;-)

 

[unionrdr]

Yeah,& mine smell like rosehips!...

 

[mjackson]

Sorry using a smartphone, stupid auto correct. My point is, there is more than one way to skin a cat!

 

[unionrdr]

Ah. I guessed right then. I somehow knew those "A's" in English & comm 1 & 2 would come in handy someday!

 

[DrWill]

Sorry using a smartphone, stupid auto correct. My point is, there is more than one way to skin a cat!

Someday, we will teach Siri how to spell "mashtun".

 

[WaltG]

Oops, flip those 2 around. Mashing low activates the beta amylase which makes more short chain sugars which are more fermentable leading to drier beer. Mashing high deactivates the beta amylase quickly and favors the alpha amylase which results in more long chain sugars that aren't as fermentable leading to a more malty, full bodied beer. At 170 both alpha and beta amylase are quickly destroyed and all conversion stops. That's why people who fly sparge will raise the mash to that temperature, to stop the conversion where they want it.

I think I mis-spoke. I bring the water to about 170 and turn the heat off. Quickly drops to about 155 or so once I put the grain bag in.

 

[unionrdr]

Ok,that's clearer. We were worried you messed up for a bit there...

 

[WaltG]

Ok,that's clearer. We were worried you messed up for a bit there...

No, mostly don't know all the terminology. I stir and check temp every 15 min. Usually after about 30 min my temps drop to about 145 and I turn heat on med-low for about 10 min to bring it back up.

 

[unionrdr]

Yeah,the terminology is something else to learn. I gave up trying to use the stove to hold mash temp. I get it up to temp & stir in the grains. Then cover & wrap it up in my quilted winter hunting coat tightly to hold the temp.