Question about lees in secondary

[Poorspartin117]

I have had a few successful 1-gal batches of cider, but to get the cider crystal clear, I have to rack to secondary and then tertiary to get rid of all the lees. but each time I rack I lose like an inch of cider and top it off with bottled water so by the time its ready to bottle, its watered down, and too much work to rack and rerack to get a single gallon. I usually give primary 3-4 weeks, then rack onto sorbate and k-meta for secondary and give it another 3-4 weeks, during this time, it starts dropping lees and the pectic enzyme makes it really clear, but I don’t want to bottle if it has lees, so I rack again, and then back-sweeten and bottle from there.

Is there a way to extend primary so there are no lees in my secondary? Or Should I just add sugar to primary so that as I water it down after racking it doesn’t lose too much ABV before back-sweetening and bottling?

Im thinking I should increase the sugar in primary to increase the ABV and then rack and rerack to get rid of the lees, then use bottling bucket to back-sweeten and bottle. Any suggestions?

 

[Maylar]

I picked up a 1.5 gallon big mouth fermentor so I can start with enough to leave a full gallon in secondary. You don't need to rack more than once. If you wait till the ferment is almost finished, at about 1.008 or so, you'll get only a dusting of lees and you can bottle from that. Some folks don't rack at all and bottle directly from primary after it clears.

 

[Poorspartin117]

bottle it with lees? cause the last gallon i made, i bottled with a small amount of lees and it caused each bottle to smell and taste really bad, i could see a dark brown sediment in the bottom that would mix around every time i moved the bottle.

 

[Yooper]

bottle it with lees? cause the last gallon i made, i bottled with a small amount of lees and it caused each bottle to smell and taste really bad, i could see a dark brown sediment in the bottom that would mix around every time i moved the bottle.

I only bottle when my cider is clear also- some yeast strains throw lees that do have a very bad taste.

If you have to rack a couple of times, the easy solution is to start with more than a gallon. I usually start in a 3 gallon vessel, then when it's time to rack, I use an assortment of 1 gallon jugs, wine bottles, growlers, etc. That way I always have the extra to top off with. I also will top off with already finished cider, if I have some handy.

 

[JKenshi]

Im thinking I should increase the sugar in primary to increase the ABV and then rack and rerack to get rid of the lees, then use bottling bucket to back-sweeten and bottle. Any suggestions?

I'm still new at this myself, but yes to this statement. I'm a big fan of the bottling bucket, and if you rack really carefully with judicious use of an autosiphon you can get almost everything in the jug without sucking up lees, or stop them before they reach your bucket. You could also top off with juice instead of water... it would kick your yeast back into action, but if you've killed it off for a still cider or plan to bottle pasteurize, you should be ok.

One idea I've been toying with, though I haven't tried it yet... I've heard some people will close off the headspace in secondary by adding sanitized glass marbles to the vessel. You could put a layer of marbles at the bottom of your secondary jug, and use that as a spacer to keep your siphon off the lees a little better... maybe.

 

[JKenshi]

Here's another thought... what are you bottling to? If you're cooking up a gallon, that's 128oz, or 10.75 x 12oz bottles. You could just bottle 10 bottles clean and pour yourself a glass of the last 6 - 8 oz.

Keep in mind this is coming from someone who will torture himself trying to get the bottles to come out to an even distribution... my most recent batch came out to two cases of bottles minus 3 bottles in one case and 2 bottles in the other... it's driving me crazy.

 

[Poorspartin117]

That's a good idea about using finished cider, ill start doing that for sure. I typically start in a 4L then rack to a 1-gallon but its the lees that fall out in secondary that are driving me nuts. so, I'm planning on adding extra sugar to primary, rack every 3-4 weeks, topping off with finished cider, then use bottling bucket to sweeten with sugar/juice to get desired ABV and bottle. I think this will work well, Thanks Yooper!

JKenshi - I bottle in wine bottles, I back-sweeten and bottle still. I usually leave an inch when racking so sucking up lees isn't usually the problem its the yeast in suspension that fall out during conditioning and when the sorbate and k-meta knock out the fermentation activity.

 

[johnnyseko]

You could just bottle 10 bottles clean and pour yourself a glass of the last 6 - 8 oz.

Exactly why I look forward to bottling day....

 

[TurnipGreen]

I’ve only done a couple ciders. They’ve been with beer yeast and i’ve done more carbonated that still, so take this for what it’s worth.
I started cold crashing my ciders before bottling, just like beers, to help clear them a bit. It seems to help them clear. That said the still end up with a bit of yeast at the bottom, but they’ve all been crystal clear after a couple months.