Pyment Information Wanted

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I picked a bunch of white grapes this morning and want to make a pyment. Should I freeze then squeeze to try to juice the grapes or should I just freeze and then mash then put in grapes whole into my fermenter?

Any advice is appreciated.
Thanks,
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KCWortHog

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Well, what kind of white grapes are they, table grapes? And how much of them do you have?

A pyment really should have a noticeable grape (or at least fruity) profile; you're probably going to want at LEAST a gallon of juice from the grapes, if not upwards of 3 gallons. I'd probably freeze then thaw & press the grapes, but others might have better advice based on experience.
 
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Well, what kind of white grapes are they, table grapes? And how much of them do you have?

A pyment really should have a noticeable grape (or at least fruity) profile; you're probably going to want at LEAST a gallon of juice from the grapes, if not upwards of 3 gallons. I'd probably freeze then thaw & press the grapes, but others might have better advice based on experience.
Table grapes, - perlette and a few thompson seedless. About 15 - 20 lbs.

From recipes I've looked at, it looks like I should rinse them well, de-stem, freeze, crush/press, campden and then throw into a frementer with my other ingredients. I've read that the skins may throw in too many tannins possibly but I think I should be okay with the white grapes maybe.

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KCWortHog

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Yeah, definitely remove the stems :) Crushing them should give you some tannins from the skin; I'm not sure how much you get from table grapes, though... honestly what I would do is press them and just use the juice to make the pyment. Then if you need more tannin after fermentation, add some grape tannin back in.

That way, you won't have to deal with a mess of sludgy grape skins in the fermenter, which could cause clogging problems when racking off the finished mead. You're right about the rest of the process (freeze, thaw, press, sulfite). Be sure you wait after adding the campden to add your yeasties. :)
 
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I ended up with 5 gal of grapes that broke down to about 2.5 gal juice. Now then I have to figure out if I want to do a small batch with just the juice or add some other fruit product for a larger batch. Maybe a grapple-cyment?

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I ended up with 5 gal of grapes that broke down to about 2.5 gal juice. Now then I have to figure out if I want to do a small batch with just the juice or add some other fruit product for a larger batch. Maybe a grapple-cyment?

GTG
You can make a fine pyment with 2.5 gal juice, just use water and honey to make up your additional volume...I've made a muscadine pyment with only 1 gallon of juice (added in mid primary) and 5 gal of already fermenting base mead. The resulting 6 gallons of mead came out great, with a very nice grape aroma and flavor, and a surprising vanilla that came across, despite it not being oaked...
 
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I'm considering a 5 gal batch using the grape juice, alfalfa honey, the 10 lbs +/- apples I have frozen and the 10 lbs +/- pears that I have for a 'summer fruit' concocction. Does that sound like a mistake? Should I just consider a plain pyment without all that messy fruit?

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I'd press the grapes and just ferment the juice. The skins may give you excessive bitterness.
 

MedsenFey

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I wouldn't use the whole grapes, only the grape juice. The seeds and skins may create bitterness with white wines. As for other fruits, you can use them as you like, but for apples and pears I prefer to juice them and just use the juice - again, the pulp can lead to excessive astringency/bitterness (at least for my palate - YMMV).
 

biochemedic

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I think the question of whether or not to make a pyment or a grape-apple-pear melomel is up to you...a gallon of honey, 2.5 gal of grape juice, and water to 5 or 6 gal will make a great pyment!
I do agree w/ Medsen re: the apples and pears...if nothing else, harder/denser fruits like that are harder to extract flavor from and you might be better off pressing/juicing them.
 
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So it looks like other fermenter's experience is guiding me away from the apple and pear additions to the grape juice on this one.

Just for kicks and since I need to free up freezer space, what if I were to start this as a straight pyment? 12 lbs alfalfa honey, 2.5 gal grape juice, add water to 5 gal, nutrient, energizer, Lalvin 71B.

Rack off of lees onto 6.6 lbs bonanza peaches and 3.4 lbs apricots.

Would I probably lose my grape flavor to the stone fruits?

At this time, I don't have a press to squeeze the apples and pears, although CL has a good one listed here that someone may want -
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/evl/grd/1787143562.html

Thanks,
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MedsenFey

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So it looks like other fermenter's experience is guiding me away from the apple and pear additions to the grape juice on this one.
I wouldn't necessarily avoid the apples and pears. Using 2.5 gallons of table grape juice in a batch, may be okay, but upping the volume with apple and pear juice might be just great, especially when racked onto the peaches. It could be a great mix.

You don't need a press for apples and pears; just a freezer will do. See Luc Volders' Blog on juicing apples (scroll down to the English version).
 

biochemedic

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I wouldn't necessarily avoid the apples and pears. Using 2.5 gallons of table grape juice in a batch, may be okay, but upping the volume with apple and pear juice might be just great, especially when racked onto the peaches. It could be a great mix.

You don't need a press for apples and pears; just a freezer will do. See Luc Volders' Blog on juicing apples (scroll down to the English version).
This is a really interesting link! Perhaps GTG is already on the right track with his already frozen apples & pears...add in some cheesecloth and a bit of elbow grease and he'll have a good amount of apple/pear juice to add in if he wants a blended fruit flavor...

FWIW, I had no idea that freezing was so effective on harder, pulpier fruits like apple and pear!
 
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MedsenFey, that is a great link, thanks! Yeah, I had no idea about that technique either. If you read any of the rest of his blog, he's doing some interesting fermenting for certain.

As far as the pyment goes, SWMBO is suggesting that I do just the grape juice in the batch and not put in any other fruit. So now that is under consideration and I now am working out other possibilities for the pears and apples.

So would the 2.5 gal grape juice be too much for a 4 gal batch with say 10 lb honey and then top off with water to 4 gal?

Thanks,
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MedsenFey

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Are you wanting to make something sweet or dry? What kind of alcohol level are you looking for?
 
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This is a really interesting link! Perhaps GTG is already on the right track with his already frozen apples & pears...add in some cheesecloth and a bit of elbow grease and he'll have a good amount of apple/pear juice to add in if he wants a blended fruit flavor...

FWIW, I had no idea that freezing was so effective on harder, pulpier fruits like apple and pear!
I think using Luc's freeze method and one of these might get my job done on the apples and the 20 lbs of pears I processed night before last.

Anyone ever use a juicer/strainer like the one above? I may have to go talk to my grandmother about this.
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