Proper usage of PBW, Saniclean, and StanSan

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alex_r

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Hello, eveyone! I currently subject all my equipment that has any long term contact with wort/beer to a cleaning regimen involving PBW, Saniclean, and StarSan.

I first soak in the PBW, at least 30 minutes, sometimes as long as overnight for fermenting vessels. I then immediately rinse with Saniclean. I do this acid rinse because I thought I was told that PBW is pretty basic, so an acid rinse is a good idea. After this, I store the parts and do a sanitization with StarSan just before use.

When reading the responses to another post of mine, it was mentioned that the Saniclean step might be unnecessary. I just wanted thoughts on this, because I am going through the Saniclean pretty fast, and that's stuff's not cheap.
 

paranode

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Yeah, Saniclean is the same thing as StarSan just modified to avoid foaming. You really only need one or the other. I would clean with PBW after use and then sanitize right before the next use.
 

Funkenjaeger

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paranode said:
Yeah, Saniclean is the same thing as StarSan just modified to avoid foaming. You really only need one or the other. I would clean with PBW after use and then sanitize right before the next use.
Yep.
Northern Brewer said:
Saniclean is an acid-based sanitizer that is essentially the same as Star San, but without the foaming action.
If you feel the acid rinse is necessary, you should be able to consolidate a little by using starsan solution to rinse instead, at least then you'd have one less chemical to keep around. Personally I would think a good hot water rinse would be all you would need prior to sanitizing.
 

Jimbo5Star

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Both Star San and Saniclean are acid items. PBW is an alkali, and is unsurpassed for handling organic soils. Mineral soils require an acid, which is why you heard that you need both.

While many folks, especially commercial brewers, use Saniclean as a non-foaming ALTERNATIVE to Star San, the former is not simply a non-foaming version of the latter. Technically, Saniclean is a low-foaming, acid anionic final rinse. There is no need to use both. Generally, home brewers like Star San as the foaming gives better reach and coverage and commercial brewers can handle the foam in the high-pressure cleaning systems so they use Saniclean. Some homebrewers don't like to wait for the foam to clear (air-dry) and so also like Saniclean when doing multiple brews in a row. Even commercial brewers, however, will also use Star San as a parts soaker as the surfactants and other properties give it great penetrating and wicking action to all nooks and crannies.

Lastly, as regards "Personally I would think a good hot water rinse would be all you would need". No, not good, unless you want infected beer. You always need to follow an alkali with an acid to insure cleaning organics and minerals. In a home brew environment, its OK if the acid is also doing the sanitizing. (In commercial settings, this is usually 3 seperate steps.) Failure to use an acid/sanitizer means you are (1) not removing mineral soils (bad) and not removing/killing various organisms (VERY bad). By then rinsing with tap water you reintroduce MORE nasties & soil and un-do whatever sanitizing you did if you did use Star San or Saniclean. Both Star San and Saniclean are FINAL rinse product, and that's FINAL!
 

EdWort

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So Jimbo, a good soak in PBW followed by a hot rinse, then sanitized with StarSan is the way to go?
 

bradsul

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Jimbo5Star I think Funkenjaeger just meant that rinsing the PBW with water was fine, not that it didn't then need to be sanitized before use (that's how I read it anyway).
 

Funkenjaeger

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bradsul said:
Jimbo5Star I think Funkenjaeger just meant that rinsing the PBW with water was fine, not that it didn't then need to be sanitized before use (that's how I read it anyway).
Yep, that's what I meant. Should have been clearer I guess, I'll edit my post.
 

riored4v

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Jimbo5Star said:
Lastly, as regards "Personally I would think a good hot water rinse would be all you would need". No, not good, unless you want infected beer. You always need to follow an alkali with an acid to insure cleaning organics and minerals. In a home brew environment, its OK if the acid is also doing the sanitizing. (In commercial settings, this is usually 3 seperate steps.) Failure to use an acid/sanitizer means you are (1) not removing mineral soils (bad) and not removing/killing various organisms (VERY bad). By then rinsing with tap water you reintroduce MORE nasties & soil and un-do whatever sanitizing you did if you did use Star San or Saniclean. Both Star San and Saniclean are FINAL rinse product, and that's FINAL!
The OP mentioned long contact time with beer/wort, but what about things that have a short contact time? (siphon hoses, siphon, wine thief, etc)

I've read that a couple rinses with hot water is enough to clean the stuff off, but to make sure to use some Star San before putting them to use in the next batch. Is this correct?
 

Tonedef131

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How much better is PBW than Oxyclean? I have been using Oxyclean for a long time since the wife had some around for laundry, but that is about gone. So I don't know if I should just get more Oxyclean since it is a bit cheaper, but if the PBW is that much better it might be worth it.
 

SuperiorBrew

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Jimbo5Star said:
Lastly, as regards "Personally I would think a good hot water rinse would be all you would need". No, not good, unless you want infected beer. You always need to follow an alkali with an acid to insure cleaning organics and minerals. In a home brew environment, its OK if the acid is also doing the sanitizing. (In commercial settings, this is usually 3 seperate steps.) Failure to use an acid/sanitizer means you are (1) not removing mineral soils (bad) and not removing/killing various organisms (VERY bad). By then rinsing with tap water you reintroduce MORE nasties & soil and un-do whatever sanitizing you did if you did use Star San or Saniclean. Both Star San and Saniclean are FINAL rinse product, and that's FINAL!
Jim,

Here is the one I mantioned today. Maybe you can shed some light on it so I dont have to try to remember what you all told me.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=59056&highlight=Star
 

RegionalChaos

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Tonedef131 said:
How much better is PBW than Oxyclean? I have been using Oxyclean for a long time since the wife had some around for laundry, but that is about gone. So I don't know if I should just get more Oxyclean since it is a bit cheaper, but if the PBW is that much better it might be worth it.
I've been wondering about this too..... :confused:
 

noiz2

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...

By then rinsing with tap water you reintroduce MORE nasties & soil and un-do whatever sanitizing you did if you did use Star San or Saniclean. Both Star San and Saniclean are FINAL rinse product, and that's FINAL!
Not to muddy the waters but from 5Star's own directions:

"Brewing Tanks – Once the equipment has been properly cleaned make up a final acid anionic rinse using STAR SAN HB as follows: In every barrel of water add 7 fluid ounces, circulate for a minimum of 3 minutes at ambient temperatures. Just prior to start-up rinse with potable water and follow state and local Health Department regulations covering start up sanitation."

And Sani-clean has the same language about rinsing with potable water.


Of course the "start up sanitation" might have a final StarSan rinse, but I doubt it.

This is probably not an issue for home brewers since it is entirely possible to let the StarSan dry out (how you are suposed to use it as a no-rinse) and even if you don't there is just not much left in the first place. With a commercial brewer not flushing with water would leave a lot of acid solution in the lines and pumps etc.

I personally do what you are doing and don't rinse for the same reasons, but that is not the "FINAL" word on the topic.
 
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