Propane burner suggestions

[specialkayme]

Looking to move out of the kitchen, and acquire a propane burner. I mostly do 5 gallon batches and 2.5 gallon test batches. I can't foresee me going to 10 gallon batches in the foreseeable future, and I'll probably keep my 2.5 gallon test batches going on the kitchen stove.

I'm looking for something that can quickly and economically heat 7 gallons to boil.

I've searched the forums and there are a number of threads in 2007 and 2011. Not sure if much has changed since then.

Several appear to enjoy the SP10 (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000291GBQ/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20) while others say it sounds like a jet engine.

Many appear to enjoy the SQ14 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009JXYQ4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20) while others complain its underpowered.

Most others enjoy the KAB4 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009JXYQY/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20) while others claim the heat output is entirely unnecessary for a 5 gallon batch.

The Blichmann Hell Fire (https://www.austinhomebrew.com/Blichmann-HellFire-Floor-Burner_p_7049.html) appears to be well built, but the burner doesn't appear to be much more or less than the KAB4, but at almost twice the price.

Then there's Anvil (https://www.morebeer.com/products/a...burner.html?a_aid=brulosophy?a_aid=brulosophy) of which I know no one that has used it, and heard no reviews.

After looking at all of it, I'm tossing between the SQ14 and the KAB4, and having a difficult time deciding. I like to buy once, buy smart, and never buy again. Not sure how that mentality applies to the above options.

Am I missing something? Which would you get, if you had to buy again?

 

[friarsmith]

I used two KAB4's for about 10 years before building a garage w/ natural gas hookup. They work well, but they always seemed a bit inefficient in terms of propane used per brewday. Once you reach a boil, you can turn them down to barely a flicker of flame to maintain the boil (weather dependent).
I've brewed on an Anvil burner a few times with friends and really liked them. They didn't seem to use as much propane as the KAB4's.

One major advantage of the Anvil is that the heating element is closer to the kettle than the KAB4, which probably helps w/ efficiency. If I had to buy one today, I'd go with the Anvil burner with the extension legs.

 

[mirthfuldragon]

I like my Anvil burner. Seems efficient on propane, and on low it is gentle enough to direct-fire without scorching. I've heard good things on the Hellfire and I have never seen one for sale on the secondary market, so that's something. I also have a Bayou classic 55,000btu, which I use as a secondary burner. It seems a lot flimsier than the Anvil and performs slightly slower than the Anvil.

Also, Anvil's customer service is awesome - there was an issue with mine in terms of a leaky orifice connection (in retrospect, totally my fault), and they sent me out a new orifice kit right away and with no hassle. When you call Anvil, they answer the phone "Blichmann" btw.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I like my SQ14.

Underpowered? I don't really have a comparison but I don't even have time to measure and [drill-powered] mill my grain in the short time it takes to heat the 4 gal of strike water.

BTW, if you search for Anvil on here you'll see lots of good reviews for it. Is it somehow worth the additional $$? I don't know.

I'm sure whatever you choose will be good
Waaaay better than the kitchen!

 

[jpakstis]

I have KAB4 and it is quiet. I used to use my dad's turkey fryer kit one and it was a jet engine. I also find that the propane usage isn't all that outrageous. I don't think its too much output for a 5-6 gallon batch. I had a brew session this past Sunday where I started with maybe a quarter of a tank and ended with maybe an eighth (our Weber gas grill has a little gauge based on weight; its not terribly accurate but that's how it read before and after). The burner is a little farther down the housing, but I have found that helps with wind. The old one used to almost completely blow out when there was a strong gust of wind.

Like RPh_Guy says, whatever you choose, it will be good.

 

[specialkayme]

If I had to buy one today, I'd go with the Anvil burner with the extension legs.

So comparing cost and BTU output:

1. SQ14 - 55,000 BTU - $60
2. Anvil - 72,000 BTU - $100 (without the leg extensions)
3. Blichmann - 140,000 BTU - $150 (without the leg extensions)
4. KAB4 - 210,000 BTU - $90

So having used both the Anvil and the KAB4, why would you go with the Anvil over the KAB4, when the KAB4 offers more heat (almost 3x the heat) at less cost?

I've read some reviews about the Anvil, and they appear very hit or miss. I've read a bit about manufacturing errors (paint burning off, bolts snapping), and heat inconsistency (some can boil 5 gal in 20 min, others it takes an hour). I know Blichmann stands behind their products, but if you can get more BTUs for less $$$, I"m not sure if it's worth the hassle. Or am I still missing something?

Like RPh_Guy says, whatever you choose, it will be good.

Truth be told, I'm not looking forward to moving out of the kitchen. I've gotten the kitchen setup down. I know my boil off rates, my isomerization rates, ect. Moving outdoors, with a new heat element changes all of my rates. More learning, more documenting, more "correcting" to be done. But I know it will have to happen sooner or later (I'm tired of scraping boiloff gunk from the stove, and the stove really can't bring a 7 gallon pot to a rolling boil anyway). Better sooner than later.

 

[RPh_Guy]

FWIW the SQ14 is $55 (from both Amazon and Wal-Mart).

 

[pshankstar]

I have the Blichmann pre-hellfire burner. I have been happy with it. I have a 20 gallon SS Brewtech kettle so I can do 10 gallon BIAB batches. It's built like a tank and I never worry about the weight of the kettle with the wort and grains. I can't speak on the others, but just adding my two cents. Good luck!

 

[Iseneye]

I have a blichmann with the legs. Pricey but it is super quiet and clean and can adjust flame level down very low which is good for direct fire step mashing. Heaps of power at the high end too.

I have had mine for ages so assume it is pre hellfire.

 

[Konadog]

I have the Hellfire burner and love it compared to my old camp stove burners. Much more adjustable (low to hi) than my old burner. It doesn't use as much gas either except in "Hellfire mode". It's also very quiet normally, but at full throttle not so much. I'm not sure how fast it can heat up 8 gallons of water, but in normal mode it takes about 15/20 min. Hellfire mode probably 10 min. The extra cost is that it's all SS and not painted metal if it's worth anything to you.

 

[Red_Dog]

I use a SQ 14 for 7 to 8 gallons of wort no problems about boiling heat I usually have to turn it down. Be sure to turn regulator all the way down before turning gas valve on, then turn regulator up to light.

 

[specialkayme]

FWIW the SQ14 is $55 (from both Amazon and Wal-Mart).

I was actually just rounding up to the closest zero across the board for all of them. (And actually, Atlantic Brew Supply has the KAB4 for $79.99, and I can pick it up from their store).
But technically you're right.

It doesn't use as much gas either except in "Hellfire mode".

Has anyone done a fuel consumption comparison between some of these models? I've heard anecdotal comments here or there about how this one uses less than that one and so on, but can't really find any good comparison. Over the next 20 years, the most fuel efficient and durable burner will pay for itself several times over. Just don't know which one that is.

I prefer quality over junk, and I know the Blichmann has significantly better quality over the Bayou line. Just not sure if it's worth the extra $120 (cost, plus legs). Or the Edelmetall Bru Burner, for that matter.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Propane releases a finite amount of energy when combusted.

Therefore each burner should have similar fuel consumption, although it's possible some are better at directing the heat toward the kettle. Seems unlikely to make much difference imo.

I stand part of a roll of reflectix around the burner to direct back some of the heat toward the kettle and prevent the hot air (convection) from blowing away.

 

[Konadog]

Propane releases a finite amount of energy when combusted.

Therefore each burner should have similar fuel consumption, although it's possible some are better at directing the heat toward the kettle. Seems unlikely to make much difference imo.

True, I think where the savings may come in is the control and flame distribution of the burner. I know that i can turn the hellfire down (lower flame) and keep a rolling boil going better than on my old camp stove burner. It just seems more efficient at the lower end.

 

[gnef]

when I was still on propane, I had two SQ14 burners. I think they are great for 2.5 and 5 gallon batches. I even used them for 10 gallon batches, but they were definitely slow for that. I also got quite a few batches out of each 20# propane bottle, so I consider them to be fairly efficient, especially considering others experiences with the larger burners.

Yes, you get more heat from the larger burner, and yes, you will heat things up more quickly, but you will also be wasting a tremendous amount of propane to get that improvement if you run the burner that high - most end up throttling it down significantly anyway.

I did build windscreens for my burners, and that helped prevent them from blowing out.

Do you have the space and infrastructure to think about going electric though? Once I went electric, it was amazing for me - it can be a lot more expensive than a propane burner though.

 

[d3track]

I currently use an SQ14, and brew with others who use the KAB4 and Blichmann and Edemetall - because the Blichmann and Anvil have the optional legs, I would recommend them. The time savings is pretty solid in the extra power, and the ability to adjust height is a really nice feature.

 

[specialkayme]

Do you have the space and infrastructure to think about going electric though? Once I went electric, it was amazing for me - it can be a lot more expensive than a propane burner though.

Right now I'm using a 8 gallon pot I got from a used kitchen supply place (great price on it). It works fine for my current needs (or at least it has for the past 5 years). But the stove has a hard time maintaining a temp of over 205 when I put more than 5 gallons in the kettle without the lid. So I have to keep the lid on the pot to maintain boiling temp, impart the intended flavors, and fully isomerize the alpha acids, which I know is probably imparting some of that cooked corn off flavors. So to get a better heat transfer, without getting the off flavors, I need more heat. Propane appears to be the quick fix.

Eventually I have plans to upgrade my kettle, and when I do I had planned on getting a Spike 10 gal kettle with three Tri Clover holes in it. I figured I could start off by putting it directly on the propane, and eventually either put two 110v heating elements and a ball valve on it, or one 210 v heating element a ball valve and a cap on it. Wiring 210v into the kitchen of the house would be problematic, but I can wire it into my (unheated) work shed no problem. I built all the wiring to that place anyway, and I don't have any drywall to run behind. But that way I could brew in the shed on most days with 210v, but on really cold days I could move it into the kitchen and hook up two 110v to hopefully get enough heat going for a good boil.

I started looking into the equipment to get, and got a little lost. Best guess, the Spike kettle was going to set me back about $320, the heating elements were probably going to be $200-300 (I"m guessing here, as I had a hard time figuring out the right heating elements), and all the accessories (clamps, plugs, valves) were probably going to run me another $60. So $580-680? Maybe a little less if I just went with the one 110v heater to start, and supplemented the heat on the stove. Not bad really, but still a little pricey.

I saw a sweet Kettle in the bargain section on Spike's website. A 10g kettle with one TC, one Full NPT, and two half NPT, and a sight glass for $290. I could throw the 210v heater on the TC, the ball valve on the Full NPT, and just plug up the two half NPTs (as I don't think I'd use them), but still a costly endeavor.

I was also hoping to cut down on time with moving to propane. My brewday is typically about 6-7 hours, and probably half of that is waiting for water to heat up. I"m not sure moving to electric would accomplish the same time savings that propane would.

But then again, if I went with the Blichmann with the leg extensions, and a new propane tank (I'd need to switch out two anyway), I'm probably looking at $250 anyway.

IDK. Just kinda confusing.

 

[gnef]

I can completely understand how looking at options is confusing right now - that is the downside to having so many options.

Do you have plumbing out to your shed?

For a quick rundown on some electric options. If you are willing and have the time to do most of the work yourself, you can save yourself a good amount of money. I drilled out the holes for the Tri clamp fittings and silver soldered the radiused flange from brewhardware, and then used an element enclosure from dragonstills. For my HLT, I just went the cheap and simple route of a temperature controller with a solid state relay in a plastic enclosure along with a thermowell.

For my BK, I went with the simple DIY controller from dragonstills.

I'd recommend just going with a single 220V element. The speed of electric brewing is amazing, even compared to propane, especially when you are putting in 5500W directly into the liquid.

There are a whole lot of other things too, but let us know what you are thinking, and we can give more specific recommendations!

 

[specialkayme]

Do you have plumbing out to your shed?

No plumbing. And realistically speaking its not going to happen either. In order to run a water line out there, I'd have to dig a trench that crosses over the main power line coming into the house. Assuming I got past that issue, I'd have to find a way to get sh*t to flow uphill in the return line. Putting the return into the septic tank isn't going to work. I could let it drain into a french drain into the woods in the back, but it makes resale on the home a nightmare.

A significant downside to the shed. But such is life.

For a quick rundown on some electric options. If you are willing and have the time to do most of the work yourself, you can save yourself a good amount of money. I drilled out the holes for the Tri clamp fittings and silver soldered the radiused flange from brewhardware, and then used an element enclosure from dragonstills. For my HLT, I just went the cheap and simple route of a temperature controller with a solid state relay in a plastic enclosure along with a thermowell.

I can do basic electrical without any issue, and woodworking is my wheelhouse. I can't do metal work. Even basic metal work. Assuming I got a basic pot and attempted to drill and weld it myself, I know I'd mess it up. And the cost of two pots would be more than the cost of a Spike kettle. So while I know I can save some cash, I'll stick to saving in the electrical department.

I'd recommend just going with a single 220V element. The speed of electric brewing is amazing, even compared to propane, especially when you are putting in 5500W directly into the liquid.

There are a whole lot of other things too, but let us know what you are thinking, and we can give more specific recommendations!

So I talked the wife this weekend, who honestly I don't deserve. She's a firm believer that I should buy once and be done with it. Which holds true for anything I'm doing. I've been brewing for 15 years, so there isn't an expectation I'll stop any time soon.

Keeping that in mind, when considering the different propane burner types, my wife was a fan of getting the Blichmann. To her, why would you get the cheaper, lower powered burner. If it will last me a lifetime, bite the bullet and get the best and be done.

But considering the total cost would probably run me about $285 ($150 for the burner, $50 for the legs, $50 for a second propane tank, probably $20 in shipping, and probably $15 in taxes), I explained my hesitation to drop the cash if I"m going to just get an electric system in the future and toss the almost three hundred in burner costs. Considering that, according to my wife, I should just go electric now. Buy the Spike kettle, get the electric element, and be done with it. I was surprised by the response.

The only issue with the logic is: 1) I'm not sure I would have gone electric in the end anyway. I don't know anyone who was sorry they went electric over propane, but still. 2) I have some outlet issues.

My laundry room is right off the kitchen, about 12' away. In theory, I could wire a second outlet by the dryer's outlet (it wouldn't be hard for me to do that at all) and run a 15' extension cord from the dryer outlet to the kitchen to power a 220V heating element. Of course, I haven't done it yet, but logically it makes good sense.

Keeping that in mind, can anyone see a flaw in the logic? Can anyone point me to a good example of a build where someone's done something similar (built their own electric element in a Spike kettle)? I imagine I'll need some help picking out the right configuration for the Kettle. And I still need to think long and hard about whether I do want to go electric or not.

But thanks for all the helps so far, and I appreciate the guidance.

 

[mdscole]

Electricity can be expensive. In California - above Tier I, the kWh is running $0.40. While that is truly ridiculous - it does influence behavior. I brew 12-14 gallons at a time in a 26 gallon pot which is 19" in diameter.

So Im a fan of burning fuels. I have both the SP10 and the KAB4. The KAB4 is a little much for a 5 gallon batch. It also burns more fuel and has fuel starvation issues when the tank gets low.

Pro: Ridiculous heat. its really quiet - like gas stove in the house quiet.
Con: Fuel consumption, width of the flame and the diameter of your pot - burning up valves, etc

The SP10 is a reasonable sized burner for a 5 gallon batch. The heat is more centered,

Pro: Fuel consumption, price, no issues with propane pressure till you're down to just a couple pounds of propane left. Less prone to wind interference since the flame is higher velocity.
Con: Noise. Lower output heat.

I drilled out the orofice on the KAB4 for use with natural gas. I installed a temp line to my meter on brew days with non-code-compliant cam lock fittings.

I use four cinder blocks to raise the KAB4 high enough to gravity drain into the fermenters. No fancy legs. The whole rig is stable and heavy.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/burners-sp10-vs-kab4.647621/#post-8295200

 

[Nagorg]

The SQ14 is a good burner for the batch size you mention. I stepped up to the Blichmann floor burners when I started doing 10-15G batches. But I still use my trusty SQ14 for 5G batches and it still works great!

And if you want to add a windscreen to it, its real easy!
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/my-bayou-classic-sq14-windscreen-addition.330988/

And a note on using the Blichmann burners for 5G batches; you can absolutely do this but the problem could be with the diameter of your kettle. If too small, as typical in that batch size, a lot of heat will escape up the sides. This is not efficient AND it can be problematic for valves at the bottom of the kettle if they get too hot. This is especially true for weldless valves! There are heat shields that you can get to help with this problem though.. Just good to know about this if you do buy Blichmann!

Example for Heat Shields:
https://www.brewhardware.com/category_s/1848.htm