Promash Still in business?

[rmyurick]

I ordered the product for download off their site several days ago and haven't gotten an email yet. If they are defunct, they should take down the site.

 

[SaguaroMan]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think I saw the last update for their software to be from 2011.

That's why I stick with BeerSmith

 

[boydster]

The most recent version was for Windows XP...

System Requirements: Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows ME, Windows NT, Windows 2000 or Windows XP Operating System (Also compatible with Macintosh using Virtual PC, and Linux using Wine). A Graphics Card capable of displaying at least 256 Colors. 8 Megabytes RAM, 3.5 Megabytes available hard drive space.

 

[rmyurick]

Thanks, but my question wasn't when the last update was issued.

 

[rmyurick]

Answered my own question--download key was in my spam box (@#$*&^ gmail!). However, the site/software seems to be on autopilot from the looks of it.

 

[LandoLincoln]

Thanks, but my question wasn't when the last update was issued.

You probably should have asked yourself that question before purchasing, though. New hops and yeast strains come up all the time. Now you'll have to enter all that information yourself.

 

[rmyurick]

Well it seems to fit my needs, and it's fairly easy to edit the database. Was just looking for something to keep track of what I have brewed and want to brew.

 

[tnlandsailor]

ProMash is great. I have used it religiously for over 10 years. But just like anything else, what have you done for me lately? No updates, no mobile app, no Mac compatibility (except for a fairly involved process with WINE/WINE BOTTLER), no support. ProMash is dead to me.

If you are searching out your first brewing software, i would not choose ProMash.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

ProMash died when the authors wife died. It is still a great application although outdated.

The last revision was issued in 2003, just before they began to battle the cancer that took his wife.

 

[ssgross]

ProMash has been a wonderful app. I still keep handwritten records of my brew days, and have always used ProMash for planning and inventory management. I found that the simplistic design and easy to use interface superior to Beer Smith, however this evaluation was made with whatever version beer smith was at in 2008.

It would be nice if someone revived ProMash.
P.S. I was looking if there was any update news, saw the site was down completely, and found this thread...condolances to the author, and many thanks for the years I have used his software.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

Not to beat a dead horse (pun intended) but I did like Promash. The guy just got tired and dropped it.

 

[Big Monk]

Not to beat a dead horse (pun intended) but I did like Promash. The guy just got tired and dropped it.

To be fair, I believe his wife had major health issues which put it on the back, back, back burner.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

To be fair, I believe his wife had major health issues which put it on the back, back, back burner.

Cancer. And, IIRC, ProMash was a hobby project to begin with.

 

[Big Monk]

Cancer. And, IIRC, ProMash was a hobby project to begin with.

I still have ProMash and love it. Works just fine for me to this day.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

Cancer. And, IIRC, ProMash was a hobby project to begin with.

I didn't know that. I hope everything worked out fine for them. That would explain why he quit such a good product.

 

[Big Monk]

That would explain why he quit such a good product.

The amazing thing about ProMash is how good it still is.

Goes to show how much fluff and nonsense is in brewing software suites.

You want to know what a poor, modern version of ProMash looks like? Check out BeerSmith.

 

[passedpawn]

I prefer Beersmith 1.x. I don't use it anymore, but I have the installer and have often considered reverting. The new Beersmith (2.x, 3.x) is cleverly cloaked in a god-awful GUI. I feel sorry for people starting out with it.

When is started brewing, Beersmith 1 was free (I think) and ProMash was $. So, I've never even seen ProMash.

 

[Big Monk]

I prefer Beersmith 1.x. I don't use it anymore, but I have the installer and have often considered reverting. The new Beersmith (2.x, 3.x) is cleverly cloaked in a god-awful GUI. I feel sorry for people starting out with it.

When is started brewing, Beersmith 1 was free (I think) and ProMash was $. So, I've never even seen ProMash.

I bet BeerSmith 1 resembles ProMash. When Brad created BeerSmith I imagine it was in response to ProMash being on a long (and then permanent) hiatus.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

Promash was much more user friendly. I still have issues with Beersmith.

 

[hopjuice_71]

Back in the late 80's/early 90's we did all our calculations mainly by hand. It was pretty straight-forward but accurate. In 1995 I wrote a program (with a GUI) in a couple of days that did everything for me. I wonder if I missed an opportunity?

 

[Brewbuzzard]

Back in the late 80's/early 90's we did all our calculations mainly by hand. It was pretty straight-forward but accurate. In 1995 I wrote a program (with a GUI) in a couple of days that did everything for me. I wonder if I missed an opportunity?

Yes I believe so. But hindsight is 20-20.

 

[kh54s10]

I've never seen ProMash it was gone before I started brewing. I started with the program that was bought and changed to BrewToad. That one was quite easy, but was really too simplified for me. I then went with Beersmith 2. I guess the GUI could be better, but don't see it being much different from the currently popular Brewer's Friend program and probably others. It is a very good tool, but like most tools you have to learn to use it properly. You would have to show me something very good to get me to switch from Beersmith 3.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

I've never seen ProMash it was gone before I started brewing. I started with the program that was bought and changed to BrewToad. That one was quite easy, but was really too simplified for me. I then went with Beersmith 2. I guess the GUI could be better, but don't see it being much different from the currently popular Brewer's Friend program and probably others. It is a very good tool, but like most tools you have to learn to use it properly. You would have to show me something very good to get me to switch from Beersmith 3.

I think that is the issue, learning how to use it properly. It can do so much you need to study the tutorials.

 

[day_trippr]

There is no doubt the BS gui is user antagonistic, which is an impediment to learning where everything is and how to use the program. And the criticality of the equipment profile can never be overstated - but tbh that's as it should be, everything depends on it, so folks need to get that right to make the program worth using in the first place.

I find it's totally worth using and frankly have come to depend on it - for everything but water conditioning, for which I use Bru'n Water...

Cheers!

 

[Brewbuzzard]

There is no doubt the BS gui is user antagonistic, which is an impediment to learning where everything is and how to use the program. And the criticality of the equipment profile can never be overstated - but tbh that's as it should be, everything depends on it, so folks need to get that right to make the program worth using in the first place.

I find it's totally worth using and frankly have come to depend on it - for everything but water conditioning, for which I use Bru'n Water...

Cheers!

I use BS for building my water profile. Have you found something wrong with it?

 

[kevin58]

My first brewing software was ProMash. I kept using it well after it was dead and gone but eventually I decided I needed to find something more up to date. I switched to Beersmith 2 and now BS3. As day trippr points out, the equipment profile is crucial to making this program work accurately. If you skip making a custom equipment profile or just click on one of the profiles that come in the software you are setting yourself up for some frustrating brew days.

But I never found BS any more difficult to use than ProMash. I remember having to print out the instructions provided by someone on a forum that described how to calculate equal mash and sparge volumes for batch sparging. It was at least two or three pages long. I probably still have that print out in my files somewhere. But it was so convoluted I had to consult that paper every brew session. With Beersmith I just set up a mash profile specific to batch sparging and that's it.

Beersmith has a learning curve for sure but the way to learn it best is to use it and brew more. Raise your hand everyone who doesn't want to brew more.

 

[day_trippr]

I use BS for building my water profile. Have you found something wrong with it?

Yes, it typically calls for way more acid additions than needed. Bru'n Water is consistently closer to my empirical data...

Cheers!

 

[Big Monk]

Yes, it typically calls for way more acid additions than needed. Bru'n Water is consistently closer to my empirical data...

Cheers!

I don’t think Riffe’s algorithm incorporates pH dependence for acid.

 

[cswant88]

Yes, it typically calls for way more acid additions than needed. Bru'n Water is consistently closer to my empirical data...

Cheers!

I’ve not had any issues with BS acid additions. I’ll admit I don’t always check every time, but when I do it’s +/- .03 of target ph. Usually sampled 30min into mash.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, my take on the BS3 water tool is hardly unique.
Indeed it's pretty much accepted as the way it is for now...

Cheers!

 

[kh54s10]

There is a pretty easy work around for BS3's acid recommendation. Use less, measure and add more if necessary. I was prepared to use less on my first try measuring pH, it turned out that I didn't need any!?!?

 

[Big Monk]

fwiw, my take on the BS3 water tool is hardly unique.
Indeed it's pretty much accepted as the way it is for now...

Cheers!

Part of the problem is that Brad Smith obviously has no clue when it comes to water chemistry. At least as far as the science of water chemistry.

He latched onto Riffe’s calculator because it was what was available publicly that wasn’t already integrated into something else, i.e. he couldn’t use Brun Water because it’s copyrighted, Brewers Friend was using Kai’s calcs, etc.

He incorporated an algorithm that he didn’t understand and now it’s in there, for better or for worse. I’m sure he’ll revise when Riffe revises his algorithm.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

Part of the problem is that Brad Smith obviously has no clue when it comes to water chemistry. At least as far as the science of water chemistry.

He latched onto Riffe’s calculator because it was what was available publicly that wasn’t already integrated into something else, i.e. he couldn’t use Brun Water because it’s copyrighted, Brewers Friend was using Kai’s calcs, etc.

He incorporated an algorithm that he didn’t understand and now it’s in there, for better or for worse. I’m sure he’ll revise when Riffe revises his algorithm.

That's great info, how do you know this?

 

[Big Monk]

That's great info, how do you know this?

http://beersmith.com/blog/2016/08/10/using-the-new-brewing-water-and-mash-ph-tools-in-beersmith-2-3/

 

[Blazinlow86]

The issue I see is there isn't really a agreed upon time to take a mash reading. If your taking your mash ph measurements at the end of the mash bs3 is actually pretty accurate were is if you take it at 15 mins brunwater is more accurate in my experiences. I've been using bs3 exclusively for ph since it came out. It's alot easier to keep it all in one place. I hated having to keep both records and adding the grain to brunwater. Any first time recipes I generally use 70% of what bs3 predicts and adjust next time. Cheers

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

The issue I see is there isn't really a agreed upon time to take a mash reading.

Take a sample thirty minutes into the mash, cool it to room temperature before taking a pH reading. That is standard practice for myself and several other contributors to this forum. There are some who take additional readings too but the thirty minute rule is the standard for consistency when reporting mash pH results.

 

[kh54s10]

Take a sample thirty minutes into the mash, cool it to room temperature before taking a pH reading. That is standard practice for myself and several other contributors to this forum. There are some who take additional readings too but the thirty minute rule is the standard for consistency when reporting mash pH results.

After 8 years of very successful brewing without a pH meter, I have moved, my water is not so great, so I bought a RO system and a meter.

I can look and need to learn but being lazy right now I'll just ask.

When is the pH important? If you want your mash to be between 5.2 and 5.6 when do you have to get there? It is currently thought that conversion takes less than 30 minutes. So if you wanted your mash to be at something like 5.3, do you want that the entire time, if so you would need to take your measurement at the beginning. If you want that before the wort goes into the boil kettle, when doesn't seem to matter.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Take a sample thirty minutes into the mash, cool it to room temperature before taking a pH reading. That is standard practice for myself and several other contributors to this forum. There are some who take additional readings too but the thirty minute rule is the standard for consistency when reporting mash pH results.

Your standard isn't everyone's standard which makes discussing ph a tricky one though. That's my point.I say most people are taking the readings earlier than that and my experience with bs3 is its way low at the start of the mash but pretty close at the end. Cheers

 

[passedpawn]

I'm definitely no expert, but here's my 2 cents anyway:

Mash pH is where you want to use the meter. Pick an acid (I use citric acid, but most brewers prefer phosphoric, and some use lactic). Or use acid malt. Use software tools or just kentucky windage and try to hit 5.2pH. If you miss, sadly you'll have to wait until next mash to correct since I don't think it's possible to correct mid-mash.

Measuring pH is tricky because pH is very temperature-dependent. I take some mash wort, put it in a tiny closed tuperware container, and set it in cold water to cool it off. When it gets to room temp, I measure pH. I suppose you could come up with an offset of some sort to correct a "hot" measurement, but I don't trust that.

I use 10g of citric acid in a 10g batch.

 

[yourlastchance89]

I'm definitely no expert, but here's my 2 cents anyway:

Mash pH is where you want to use the meter. Pick an acid (I use citric acid, but most brewers prefer phosphoric, and some use lactic). Or use acid malt. Use software tools or just kentucky windage and try to hit 5.2pH. If you miss, sadly you'll have to wait until next mash to correct since I don't think it's possible to correct mid-mash.

Measuring pH is tricky because pH is very temperature-dependent. I take some mash wort, put it in a tiny closed tuperware container, and set it in cold water to cool it off. When it gets to room temp, I measure pH. I suppose you could come up with an offset of some sort to correct a "hot" measurement, but I don't trust that.

I use 10g of citric acid in a 10g batch.

I used to use citric acid until I did a batch of American Light Lager and some of the character seeped into the final beer. Now I use mostly lactic acid unless I'm trying to do a beer with a fruitier character.