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Production of tannins

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BobbiLynn

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Does someone know for sure...

Must chlorine be present in your water for tannins to be produced by fermenting yeast at too high of a temperature. Or can tannins be produced without the presence of chlorine?
 

BigRob

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As far as I know, tannins come from grain husks (under certain mash conditions), not from yeast during fermentation. Chlorine will make Chlorophenols when it's present during fermentation however.
 
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BobbiLynn

BobbiLynn

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Maybe I should word the question differently... If I have detected chlorophenols in a batch of beer... does that mean my water MUST contain chlorine. It's well water and a cheap, outdated test kit is showing no chlorine present. But must it exist if chlorophenols(tannins?) are present? Maybe tannins and chlorophenols are 2 different things, sorry about any confusion.

Added: I see, tannins produce multiple types of phenols. The type of phenols I am talking is like smoking a clove cigarrette, dry, and numbness in the mouth, throat. Do other types of phenols also cause a numbing sensation?
 

ajdelange

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Chlorine must be present for chlorphenolics to form and they form from the reaction of chlorine and/or chloramine with phenols from husks or other grain components. But chlorphenolics are quite distinct from phenolics. What you are describing sounds like phenolics produced by yeast with the POF (Phenolic Off Flavor) gene. This is, of course, usually not desired but there are exceptions, for example Bavarian wheat beers and, it seems, everything that comes out of Chambley. Chlorphenoics, conversely, are generally described as tasting/smelling like plastic of some sort.

You should know whether your well water has chlorine in it or not. If it is a home well it would be unusual for it to be chlorinated. If it is a community well it might be. If it doesn't smell of chlorine upon agitation it doesn't have any chlorine in it.
 
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BobbiLynn

BobbiLynn

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What you are describing sounds like phenolics produced by yeast with the POF (Phenolic Off Flavor) gene.

Okay, I started to suspect it was the yeast causing it, fermenting at temps too high(5 degrees over recommended) Thank you. My well water should not have any chlorine it in and does not smell of chlorine, cheap test kit showed up negative for chlorine. Just trying to get to the bottom of this so it won't happen again. Thanks for any and all help.
 

Hermit

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Okay, I started to suspect it was the yeast causing it, fermenting at temps too high(5 degrees over recommended) Thank you. My well water should not have any chlorine it in and does not smell of chlorine, cheap test kit showed up negative for chlorine. Just trying to get to the bottom of this so it won't happen again. Thanks for any and all help.
Do you have any other home brewers or brew clubs in the area? It never hurts to get other opinions on exactly what the off flavor is.
 

mabrungard

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Okay, I started to suspect it was the yeast causing it, fermenting at temps too high(5 degrees over recommended) Thank you. My well water should not have any chlorine it in and does not smell of chlorine, cheap test kit showed up negative for chlorine. Just trying to get to the bottom of this so it won't happen again. Thanks for any and all help.
There are different types of chlorine test kits. Free Chlorine test kits are useful for testing water when chlorine is used as the disinfectant. But you have to use a Total Chlorine test kit when chloramine is used as the water disinfectant. Possibly that is why you don't detect anything with the test kit, yet still perceive chlorophenolics.
 
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