Process question - All Grain

[binabik]

I have just started doing All Grain brewing, but have had issues getting the correct OG and batch size output.

For instance I brewed a Saison yesterday with an expected OG or 1.054 for a 5 gallon batch.
I ended up with a 4 gal output and an OG of 1.044.

So I assume that I am not getting the efficency that I should be getting.

I am mashing at 164 degrees F for 60 min. The boil was for 60 min.

Any tips/tricks to how to get better efficiency from my grains?

Thanks.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

164 is really high and probably the issue try 154

 

[Erythro73]

The most important thing for beer quality and repeatability is to have consistent efficiency. Having a higher efficiency doesn't mean higher beer quality, nor does it mean lower beer quality.

However, you can save money (because you need less grain), move around less weight (which is nice with BIAB), etc by having a higher efficiency. If you want to improve efficiency, look at the crush : is it fine enough? I always stir a little bit at the beginning of the mash to insure every grain is in contact with the water. Furthermore, did you sparge? How?

However, the biggest problem I see is... why are you mashing at 164F? That's a way too high mashing temperature, and it will leave your beer with quite a bit of unfermentable sugars in it. So you'll have a higher FG (combined with your low OG), so I guess it will be very sweet.

 

[TheZymurgist]

I have just started doing All Grain brewing, but have had issues getting the correct OG and batch size output.

For instance I brewed a Saison yesterday with an expected OG or 1.054 for a 5 gallon batch.
I ended up with a 4 gal output and an OG of 1.044.

So I assume that I am not getting the efficency that I should be getting.

I am mashing at 164 degrees F for 60 min. The boil was for 60 min.

Any tips/tricks to how to get better efficiency from my grains?

Thanks.

First, are you sure your *mash* was 164 and not your *strike temp*? If so, then your wort will be highly (if not completely) unfermentable.

Next, we really need to know your setup and process to help diagnose the problem. Are you doing BIAB? Mash in a cooler? Fly sparge, batch sparge, no sparge? Walk us through what your process is.

 

[binabik]

I did not catch my typo, thanks for pointing it out.

The crush was done by the local brew store, I didn't think to recrush. I am still working to refine this process.

As far as sparging, this is something that I need to improve upon. I dont have the setup to properly sparge. In reading about this it recommended sparging until the SG of the wort was 1.008, how do you monitor the SG of the wort? I have a float, so Id have to take sample every few minutes.

Any recommended equipment?

 

[TheZymurgist]

I did not catch my typo, thanks for pointing it out.

The crush was done by the local brew store, I didn't think to recrush. I am still working to refine this process.

As far as sparging, this is something that I need to improve upon. I dont have the setup to properly sparge. In reading about this it recommended sparging until the SG of the wort was 1.008, how do you monitor the SG of the wort? I have a float, so Id have to take sample every few minutes.

Any recommended equipment?

It's not necessary to monitor the SG of the wort as you're sparging. With the proper calculations, you should be able to add the correct amount of sparge water, empty your mash tun, and end up with both the proper gravity and proper volume. It does take some time and trial to learn your system and tweak things, but after a few times, you should be able to predict everything.

From what you've said so far, it sounds like you're not doing BIAB, correct? Do you have any brewing software you're using?

 

[binabik]

Though I do need to invest in some better equipment.

I will have to go back and look at the calculations to see where I may have gone wrong. Likely not sparging with enough water. The water was approx 174 degrees F. I do have BeerSmith 2 software. Is there another that I should look into?

 

[govner1]

I have just started doing All Grain brewing, but have had issues getting the correct OG and batch size output.



For instance I brewed a Saison yesterday with an expected OG or 1.054 for a 5 gallon batch.

I ended up with a 4 gal output and an OG of 1.044.



So I assume that I am not getting the efficency that I should be getting.



I am mashing at 164 degrees F for 60 min. The boil was for 60 min.



Any tips/tricks to how to get better efficiency from my grains?



Thanks.

First- what is your recipe & grain bill?
I'd think a Saison would have Pilsen as your predominant base grain- so first a mash temp of 164° is WAY TOO HIGH, also a 90
Minute boil would seem more appropriate.
As for your end of boil volume it is obviously too low. How did you calculate your mash & sparge volumes? Did you batch sparge?
In either case, you're obviously off & if you should have boiled 90 minutes you're even further off.



Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[TheZymurgist]

Though I do need to invest in some better equipment.

I will have to go back and look at the calculations to see where I may have gone wrong. Likely not sparging with enough water. The water was approx 174 degrees F. I do have BeerSmith 2 software. Is there another that I should look into?

BeerSmith is great, stick with that. The only thing you need to do is make sure you have your equipment entered correctly. That will help a lot. I still don't see any detail on what equipment you are using. If you let us know, and if you detail your brew day, we might be able to help diagnose the problem, or at least give you an idea of what areas to be looking to improve.

 

[metanoia]

Like the others have said, if you're mash temp is 164 you're going to get bad results. If that's the temp of your strike water, you'll likely be in a good mash temp range if you loose 10-15 degrees to the MLT and grains.

You also said you don't have the proper setup to sparge. How so? Simply, do you not have large enough or multiple pots/stockpots? To hit the correct pre-boil volume you'll typically need more water for the sparge than you do for the mash. When I work on my 5 gallon batches, I've got my old 16 quart stockpot from extract brewing as my main hot liquor tank. I can typically get my strike water all to fit in their, though for sparging I'll have an additional 8 quart stockpot warming up water as well as the 16 quart pot. It's a bit creative, especially when trying to keep the temp in both the same, but it works for now.

 

[YeastMode]

Post a picture or a description of your set up. Usually low SG is not an equipment quality problem, but a process problem. By knowing your equipment, we can help with the process.

That said, I have had some inconsistent grain crush from my LHBS. People adjust it, it gets out of adjustment from use, a roller gets stuck, etc. and no one notices until there is a complaint. Post a picture of your crushed grain next time and we should be able to tell you if that's an issue. I did an APA recently with a bad crush. Estimated OG was 1.056, actual came out at 1.042. It was the crush. Sounds like you may have had the same issue, but I would like to know about your sparge protocol based on your comments.

 

[atoughram]

I typically add another gallon of sparge water in addition to what beersmith tells me, I keep sparging until I reach my initial kettle quantity. I'm sure as I refine my numbers, I wont have to have that extra gallon of water.

 

[beershirt]

I'm a newbie, so I don't have answers yet. I have been brewing 5 gal AG batches until I get it figured out. I just tapped my 5th brew. Not perfect, but not bad.
I miss my numbers too. I have been following recipes that I found on the boards here, but most are 75% efficiency. I just figured out that my efficiency is about 60%. Since I didn't adjust the grain bill, my OG has consistently come up short because I would fly sparge until I got the boil volume the recipe called for.
I have read that your efficiency is not important, but I guess knowing your efficiency is very important. You can't really use, adjust or build recipes and get expected results without it.

 

[jtratcliff]

I have read that your efficiency is not important, but I guess knowing your efficiency is very important. You can't really use, adjust or build recipes and get expected results without it.

Exactly!

Start dialing in your equipment profile in beersmith.... You'll start hitting your numbers soon enough. A repeatable efficiency is more important than a high efficiency.

 

[binabik]

The grain bill for this was a little over 10 lbs. I do a batch sparge as I don't have enough equipment to do a continuous sparge. This is my next upgrade.

As I said I am still new to the All Grain, but prefer it over the extract kits. I like to experiment and the kits don't allow for it.

My recent upgrades to process are a homemade spin table for my yeast starters and a temperature controlled fermentation chamber. This will help with consistency of product (and were easy to build), but as has been pointed outI need to refine my brew process.

Thanks for all the pointers, I willl get my brew process corrected,

Thanks again.

 

[metanoia]

The grain bill for this was a little over 10 lbs. I do a batch sparge as I don't have enough equipment to do a continuous sparge. This is my next upgrade.

Batch sparging is probably the most popular option when it comes to home brewing because of it's ease of use, so don't quite discount it yet. Plenty of people here hit their numbers using batch sparging.