Priming Cider?

[TRueff]

Hi,

I made a simple batch of cider a few months ago:

-5 gallons organic, pasteurized cider
-1 can frozen apple juice concentrate
-Wyeast cider

This was my first try with cider. After about 2 weeks primary and then 2 weeks secondary, it was still very cloudy, but tasted quite nice. I bottled it in new, 1liter flip top bottles. I wanted it to be carbonated, so I added around 4 oz. Of dextrose (dissolved in water) to the bottle bucket that had already been filled with the cider. I added the dextrose and pressed the bucket lid with airlock back on immediately, to let the cider sit and dextrose disperse thoroughly before bottling. As soon as I pressed the lid back on, I noticed the airlock hissing violently! It bubbled intensely and continuously (no space/time between bubbles, just one continuous fizz). It did this for a few seconds or so, and then calmed down, and ceased bubbling within a minute or so.

Being new to this, I assumed that pouring the liquid in had maybe just disturbed the cider and bumped some co2 out of the solution (like shaking a soda). Anyhow, I bottled the cider and let it sit for two weeks before popping the fist bottle. When I did, it was still cloudy, tastes good, and was completely still. There may have been a handful of tiny bubbles, but basically it was as carbonated as tap water. Most of the bottles sat (outside of the fridge) for another several weeks or so, but none of them ever became carbonated.

Has anyone else ever experienced something similar to this? My only real hypothesis is that the yeast ate up all of the dextrose in those few seconds of violent airlock fizzing, but I has no idea yeast could process sugars so quickly.

Any insight here?? What I'm I to do if I want fizz in future ciders? Apparently this method doesn't work for me, or was this just some fluke?

Thanks!

 

[Yooper]

It does sound like you had some "nucleation points" when you added the sugar.

Generally, you dissolve the sugar in some boiling water and stir to dissolve, put that into the bottling bucket and rack the cider into that, with the tubing at the bottom of the bottling bucket so that the cider fills the bucket from the bottom, swirling to mix. Then you bottle immediately, without waiting.

I'm not sure what happened here, but you may have reached the alcohol tolerance of the yeast, or somehow waiting a bit too long before bottling. You should be ok for next time if you follow the above steps.

 

[GilSwillBasementBrews]

Was the cider preservative free it could effect the yeast behavior.


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[TRueff]

Was the cider preservative free it could effect the yeast behavior.


Sent from somewhere to someone

Yes, the cider was perservative-free. It was whole foods brand organic cider.

Thanks for the tips Yoober, I'll follow that proceedure next time. Still not sure what happened here. What do you mean by "nucleation points".

Thanks!

 

[phug]

Mentors plus diet coke is a great demonstration of nucleation points allowing co2 to come out of solution quickly. And powder does the same to an extent


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[TRueff]

Ah, thanks. Yes, the violence of what I experienced through the airlock reminded me of mentos/diet coke, only, no liquid or foam came out, just a stream of bubbles intensely fizzing up through the airlock.

 

[phug]

Also depending on your conditioning temps, and various other factors that I don't fully understand you may sometimes need more than 2 weeks


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[TRueff]

Yeah, most of the bottles sat for longer than 2 weeks (some up to probably 5 weeks or so), but all were still. They were at room temperature throughout this time -- I'm sure a few degrees of fluctuation over that time, but no major temp swings.

Do you think there is any possible way that the yeast (from 5 gallons of cider) consumed the dextrose (4 oz solution) that quickly (seconds to a few minutes)?

I don't understand what else could account for it. The cider was dry out of the bottle, no sweetness to suggest that the dextrose remained -- as someone above suggested (I.e. Yeast reaching max abv tolerance).

 

[bernardsmith]

Cider isn't beer. There are no chains of protein to create a net that traps the CO2 and so create a head. So, don't look for a head. Open a bottle carefully and pour the contents into a clean and soap free glass. What do you see? If you see bubbles rising from the bottom then you have carbonated the cider. If you see no bubbles then the dextrose has not fermented. So... a couple of questions.
1. Did you stabilize the cider (adding K-sorbate and K-meta)? That would prevent (or at least inhibit ) further fermentation.
2. Did you measure the gravity before you added the priming sugar? Did you measure the gravity of one of your bottles? If the gravity has risen since the addition of the sugar then the yeast has failed to convert the sugar to CO2 and alcohol. (I am not certain that you would be able to tell that there was more sweetness or less if you simply tasted the cider. 4/5 of an ounce per gallon is a small amount of sugar in terms of taste). If the gravity has not changed or indeed has dropped further then your sugar was converted.
Last point. You are using "flip top" bottles. Is that like a Grolsch bottle? Are they new or old? Might the rubber gaskets be worn enough to create a poor seal, one poor enough to permit the CO2 to escape? Here's what I would do. Open a bottle and put your thumb over the mouth. Shake the bottle vigorously for a few seconds and then remove your thumb. What do you hear? What do you see? If you hear a pop then there is CO2 in the bottle. If the cider gushes out the neck then you have carbonated it.

 

[TRueff]

Cider isn't beer. There are no chains of protein to create a net that traps the CO2 and so create a head. So, don't look for a head. Open a bottle carefully and pour the contents into a clean and soap free glass. What do you see? If you see bubbles rising from the bottom then you have carbonated the cider. If you see no bubbles then the dextrose has not fermented. So... a couple of questions.
1. Did you stabilize the cider (adding K-sorbate and K-meta)? That would prevent (or at least inhibit ) further fermentation.
2. Did you measure the gravity before you added the priming sugar? Did you measure the gravity of one of your bottles? If the gravity has risen since the addition of the sugar then the yeast has failed to convert the sugar to CO2 and alcohol. (I am not certain that you would be able to tell that there was more sweetness or less if you simply tasted the cider. 4/5 of an ounce per gallon is a small amount of sugar in terms of taste). If the gravity has not changed or indeed has dropped further then your sugar was converted.
Last point. You are using "flip top" bottles. Is that like a Grolsch bottle? Are they new or old? Might the rubber gaskets be worn enough to create a poor seal, one poor enough to permit the CO2 to escape? Here's what I would do. Open a bottle and put your thumb over the mouth. Shake the bottle vigorously for a few seconds and then remove your thumb. What do you hear? What do you see? If you hear a pop then there is CO2 in the bottle. If the cider gushes out the neck then you have carbonated it.

Thanks for your reply!

Good info on the difference between carbonation in beer vs. cider, the lack of protein, etc. something that I had noticed, anecdotally, but never really thought about or understood.

1. I did not stabilize. My only ingredients were: 5 gallons (Wholefoods brand, organic, pasteurized) cider; 1 can of organic apple juice concentrate; and Wyeast 4766 Cider.

2. I measured the starting and final gravities, with a hydrometer, and calculated the total, final abv to be around 6%. (I can't recall the precise specific gravities, and there is none left to test, because I have drunk it all). Good idea about retesting gravity after priming/bottle conditioning though! I should have thought about that...next time... The wyeast website says that the yeast can tolerate up to 12% abv, so I think that probably rules out "maxed out yeast" hypothesis. The finger over the bottle trick would have come in handy too.

Lastly, my flip ton bottles were brand new, never been used before. I'm confident that the seal was adequate.
Thanks for all of the informed and well thought out help!

 

[TRueff]

*flip top bottles