Primary Pale Liner (BeerInBag)

[BeerCanuck]

I was reading over some general threads regarding sanitation.
One huge time saver that I use to save on cleaning/sanition time is a primary pale liner (26" X 36 " clear extra strong bags) ;

The cleaning of the pale is simplified immensely by removing liner after racking.The used beer bag does nicely as the primary garbage bag going to curb.

Just wondering if I am the only one using this technique?


Cheers
BeerCanuck

 

[wilserbrewer]

I would love to try this but am not sure where to get the liners. My local BOP LHBS does this w/ their 15 gal batches. If you have asource for liners please share.
Mike

 

[BeerCanuck]

I would love to try this but am not sure where to get the liners. My local BOP LHBS does this w/ their 15 gal batches. If you have asource for liners please share.
Mike

I believe that my pales are approximately 15 gallons.
I buy the bags from a janitorial supply store
The cool thing with the clear bag is that I can see the beer level through the bucket while racking without even taking off the lid.

Cheers
BeerCanuck

 

[Nurmey]

Just an FYI. Only use clear bags, dark plastic liners are not food safe.

 

[FlyGuy]

I see these liner bags are catching on with winemakers. You might try a wine-making supply store for them.

 

[boo boo]

It is a good idea if those bags are indeed food safe.

 

[BeerCanuck]

The Beer Bags were recommended by one of my favorite LHBS;

He also set me up on the pales/lids/lock seals and source for bags. This is the method he uses and he is one fine brewer.

ps. For the last 3 months using this method I have had no off flavors in the beer due to the bag using this technique.

Cheers
BeerCanuck

 

[AiredAle]

Chances are very high those trash bags are made using food grade ingredients, since most polyethylene resin suppliers and compounders don't let any non-food grade ingredients into their plants. This is so they don't have to worry about cross-contaminating a food grade resin with ingredients that aren't food grade. They don't know or care if the final resin goes into sandwich bags or trash bags.

I would use the bag in the post and not worry.

 

[john from dc]

this may be a dumb question but do you sanitize these bags?

 

[BeerCanuck]

this may be a dumb question but do you sanitize these bags?

I lightly clean and sanitize the plastic pale after use but the bags I don't bother with.

Cheers
BeerCanuck

 

[john from dc]

I lightly clean and sanitize the plastic pale after use but the bags I don't bother with.

Cheers
BeerCanuck

good to know, thanks for the tip!

 

[jds]

Poly bags are processed at temperatures that are high enough to neutralize any nasty organisms that may be hanging around. Once they're in the roll, there's not much of a way for them to get contaminated to the point where they can outstrip your yeast.

I've been thinking about this technique for use in my carboys as well. It would sure make harvesting yeast and cleaning up a lot easier.

 

[explosivebeer]

Is there any concern of oxidation using this setup? I'm in need of a similar solution and am debating the best course of action. I can get 15- or 20-gallon HDPE drums for $22-25 but I don't know how a liner would work with that setup.

 

[springer]

if you are really concerned about food grade try these,I use them in 30 gallon steel drums to collect sap for maple syrup reason being you cant find 10 mil garbage bags... Never though about using one in the primary

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/pr...=USPlastic&category_name=110&product_id=14672

 

[miatawnt2b]

Hey BeerCanuck... How thick are those liners?
-J

 

[BeerCanuck]

I just checked on the box to see if thickness was listed. Not much in regards to specifications other than the size and extrastrong. I have noticed other LHBS in my area use the same method for primary.
Works well for me.

Cheers
BeerCanuck

 

[Jonnio]

I am glad someone resurrected this thread. I was looking for it a while ago and it would have saved me some money buying a second Ale Pail for wine....I might have to give this a go with a cheap beer just to try it out.

 

[bsdx]

In case it helps anyone, I was looking for suitable bags at a couple grocery stores and found something that is food safe by design but expensive. Reynolds Oven Bags "Turkey Size" was 19x23 1/2 inch and just barely fit my taller form factor Ale Pail with an inch left over to fold over the rim. This $2.69 box only came with two. Maybe something bigger or cheaper could be found.

Personally I'd be willing to try some that don't mention food safe but I couldn't tell what may or may not be so far in the grocery store.

 

[fishnfever]

Interesting

 

[rustynuts]

This is a great idea. I am definately gonna give this a try but I think I will spray the liner down with some starzan...it's cheap and would make me feel better

 

[bsdx]

I did find a 5 pack of turkey bags at a local Gordon Food Service store for $3.99, they said they were leftovers from Thanksgiving and not normally stocked. Also as of Monday I have two ferm pails making beer using bags I found at work that were meant for paper shredder waste. They are big enough for the larger 7.9 gal plastic pails but the plastic is somewhat thin in comparison to the turkey bags. The bottom is star shaped too so not all of the plastic lays flat on the bottom. I'll see how it comes out. I'm hoping the lid seal doesn't tear the plastic at the top.

I think I could convince myself to pay around $1/bag if it was food safe, big enough, and a sturdy thickness.. I wouldn't have to worry about scratches in the pail bottom and cleanup would be easy.

 

[BlackTieBrewing]

I found a place that has these FDA compliant poly liners if you don't mind buying a case of 250. They have a warehouse in Toronto for Canadians and a bunch of locations in the states. http://www.uline.ca/BL_6751/Uline-Industrial-Trash-Liners

 

[bsdx]

Thanks!! Seeing the FDA and the type of plastic was enough to convince me it should be worth buying for this. I ordered a box of the S-7000 "heavy" (1.5 mil) CLEAR 24x30 bags meant for 8-10 gal, wanted to make sure it would be tall enough for all my pails since the width looked ok. UPS ground from Illinois warehouse to michigan, should ship monday and arrive tuesday

 

[fishnfever]

Where do you see the FDA aproval.

 

[BlackTieBrewing]

You have to select an individual product and towards the bottom of the page there a tap that says more info or something like that and it says "meets FDA approval"

 

[bsdx]

if you goto
http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail...24-x-30-8-10-Gallon-15-mil-Clear-Trash-Liners
and click on "Additional Info" near the bottom,
it shows:
OTHER INFORMATION:
* FDA compliant for food industry use.
* Milky appearance-- not crystal clear.


MATERIAL: Polyethylene

MISCELLANEOUS:
* Bags are flat packed.
* Plastic twist ties not included.

 

[bsdx]

The bags I ordered came in yesterday. I am very pleased so far with the size I picked and the thickness. It leaves at least 6 inches to hang over the edge of a 7.9 gal plastic pail and the thickness is satisfactory. I have not used them to brew yet, only stuck one in a pail to inspect. I also stuck one in a cornie, adding liquid into the bag sucked it down near the beginning to about 2" hanging out the lid hole, I was able to insert the lid easily with the bag in but the dip tubes and posts would be useless without poking a hole in the bag which would make the bag almost useless. If you had a lower psi pressure relief or an airlock built into the lid, you could use the same bag as a liner for fermenting in a cornie it appears.

 

[bsdx]

I started using the liners in my 6gal carboys too. I have not used buckets since I went all-grain, but it is tempting for beers with lots of whole hops. I ordered another box of bags that are 3 inches longer to leave more hanging out of the carboy, making it easier to work with. I like that I can fill the liner with wort or beer then fold down the excess plastic to keep dust out before I am finished (fermcap, aerate, pre-fermentation additions, pitch yeast, airlock or blowoff). I found the metal lid ring from a non-wide mouth canning jar fits over the neck/bag easily to keep the bag folded shut.
S-13572 12-16GAL 1.5MIL CLR TR

For a while I tried going without the liners, but I was never completely pleased with how clean my carboys were coming out and spending a lot of time scrutinizing and re-cleaning. I went back to using the bags because I can pull it out in a minute, rinse the carboy with water and call it done.

I've found the liner makes it easy to remove a #10 bung which you can sink to be just below flush with the top of the carboy. Fits nicely, and because you can tug on the plastic to pull the bung out, you can do it with one hand. This makes things easier when getting ready to rack since I can be holding my racking cane in the other hand.

The backpressure outside of the bags but inside the carboy was reducing my headspace so I actually drilled a hole in the shoulders of my plastic carboys, allowing the bag to fully inflate when the yeast get going. This has added advantages, for example I don't have a suckback problem because the bag can deflate, and if I remove the bung to take a sample, I can blow air into the shoulder hole to deflate the bag, pushing out a good portion of air that may have entered when I took a sample. The shoulder hole also makes it easier to remove the bag because I can use backpressure to push the bag out. Alternatively, pierce the bottom of the bag with something long and sharp like a racking cane.

I've been using the bags for lots of stuff, like containing spills if a bottle broke while shipping it, lining my grain buckets, and even as a trash bag in my brewery

 

[hausofstrauss]

I had been thinking about this for a while and was glad to see someone here had done it. I just tried the uline liners on 3 different batches.

I was already fermenting in plastic buckets due to the lower cost and easier cleanup. This was hopefully a way to make cleanup even easier and to open up possibilities for alternative fermentation vessels. I'm looking to experiment with a 10 gallon plastic trash can for larger batches. The choices for a fermentation vessel are now opened up dramatically.

I got the next size up liners too (S-13572):
http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-13572/Trash-Liners/24-x-33-12-16-Gallon-15-Mil-Clear-Trash-Liners

Results:
Munich Helles
One would think if there was leaching of anything into the beer, it would show up in this one. I kegged a few weeks ago and it tastes great.
Tried on two other ales (for secondary only), no problems there either.

I double bagged for this first round of testing to be safe, but there was no leaking to be found. The lids for the buckets sealed just fine, even over two layers of bag.

The best part is the cleanup. Just siphon the beer, pull the liner out, tie it shut and throw it in the trash. No bucket to clean, just a lid.

I also wanted to decrease the permanent modification of any equipment, so I skipped the vent hole in the side of the bucket and everything went just fine. As of now, I think this will be my new method. Bulk cost puts them at about $0.20 / bag. Completely worth it in my opinion. 250 bags will last me a long time, but I suppose one could go in with a few people and split a package.

 

[wilserbrewer]

My LHBS is also a brew on premise, they use large bags to line a 15 gallon HDPE closed head drum for primary fermentation, 12 gal batches.

 

[wyowolf]

what a great idea... i wish i had seen this thread a year ago!!
i made an IPA that i STILL cannot get the smell out!!
will try this next time for sure!!

 

[hausofstrauss]

I had been thinking about this for a while and was glad to see someone here had done it. I just tried the uline liners on 3 different batches.

I was already fermenting in plastic buckets due to the lower cost and easier cleanup. This was hopefully a way to make cleanup even easier and to open up possibilities for alternative fermentation vessels. I'm looking to experiment with a 10 gallon plastic trash can for larger batches. The choices for a fermentation vessel are now opened up dramatically.

I got the next size up liners too (S-13572):
http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-13572/Trash-Liners/24-x-33-12-16-Gallon-15-Mil-Clear-Trash-Liners

Results:
Munich Helles
One would think if there was leaching of anything into the beer, it would show up in this one. I kegged a few weeks ago and it tastes great.
Tried on two other ales (for secondary only), no problems there either.

I double bagged for this first round of testing to be safe, but there was no leaking to be found. The lids for the buckets sealed just fine, even over two layers of bag.

The best part is the cleanup. Just siphon the beer, pull the liner out, tie it shut and throw it in the trash. No bucket to clean, just a lid.

I also wanted to decrease the permanent modification of any equipment, so I skipped the vent hole in the side of the bucket and everything went just fine. As of now, I think this will be my new method. Bulk cost puts them at about $0.20 / bag. Completely worth it in my opinion. 250 bags will last me a long time, but I suppose one could go in with a few people and split a package.

Update to my post. I actually have a blog post all about how I use them in my brewing:

Fermentation Bucket Liners

My correspondence with James Spencer and "Paul the Toxicologist" was one of the first topics discussed on the podcast.

Homebrew Toxicology Pt. 3

(Starts at about 5:30)