Poor Efficiency and stuck/lack of fermentation

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kujosp

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I'm going to give you guys/girls a lot of detail so bear with me.

Problem: 60% efficiency and last 2 batches FG 1.035 target ~1.015

System: New system I built over a few years consisting of 3 keggles and all 3 have direct fire heating. HLT with level guage and temperature reading, Insulated Mash tun with a 15" NorCal brewing false bottom and temp guage as well as a NorCal sparge arm, and a boil kettle with a bazooka tube. This system also utilizes a single pump and is cooled with a copper wort chiller. I've done 5, 10 gallon batches with this system. All batches are oxygenated with pure O2 light bubbling for 60 seconds per 5 gallon carboy.

1st brew was a porter that came out well but had a 60% efficiency and I was using the sparge arm. Just under shot the OG and hit the FG.

2nd brew was a pale ale that had 60% or less efficiency. Hit OG but with 6 gallons of beer and also hit the FG.

3rd brew was a stout, I adjusted for 60% efficiency and went to batch sparging. Hit the OG but got a 1.035 FG and I will get into later how I combated the stuck fermentation. Grain bill: 20lbs 2-row, 3lbs munich, 2lbs chocolate, 2lbs flaked oats (6%), 1lb carafa III, 1lb roasted barley. Mash temperature was solid at around 152F.

4th brew was an old ale, adjusted for 60% efficiency and nailed the OG but again got a 1.035 FG. Malt bill: 22lbs Maris Otter, 2lbs crystal60, 8oz chocolate, 1lb biscuit, 4lbs Munich. Mashed at 153F and the temp did get up to 159F about 10 - 15 minutes into the hour mash.

All batches were mashed for an hour with temperature fluctuations in batch 2 and 4 due to cold days/nights. Mash out in all is done at 168F. When using the sparge arm I did restrict flow and check gravity. I did not like the set-up and switched to batch sparge and use Sparge Pal app to assist in 1.25 qt/lb mash thickness with strike temperatures and second runnings. The batch sparge is added and mixed around with a paddle and also recirculated.

Malt: purchased at AIH (adventures in homebrewing) and I use their mill. When added to the Mash tun 2-4 gallons of water is put in at a time with slow addition of crushed grains. No dough balls are ever present.

Stuck Ferm: I had both batch 3 and 4 stored in the basement and the temps did fall to 60F. I brought them back upstairs where they gradually warmed to around 68F-70F. Swirled the cake. Shook the cake. Bought new yeast and dumped into fermentor. Added 1/3 of a yeast cake to each 5 gallon carboy. The FG remains at 1.035. The same process was done with batch #4, however I had an assistant who took 5 gallons home during that batch and he stored his carboy at 65F and both of our FG is showing 1.035 for that batch as well.

Mash tun thermometer probe is 2" long and have since replaced this with a 6" probe after batch #4. My fear was incorrect mash temperature readings. During the Mash I recirculate through the pump for a majority of the time, if the temp begins to drop I cut recirculation. I ALWAYS recirculate during direct heat.

Additional info: pH was checked during the first two batches (until my probe dried out after the water evaporated after batch #3) pH was in normal range I did add gypsum during the pale ale at 2tsp for 10 gallons to bring that down slightly during the mash. pH after boil is good as well and all batches are filtered well water using an outdoor spigot. Hops are usually a combination of both whole and pellet. Boil kettle is heated with a Blichmann burner and gets a full rolling boil with the lid off.

I know it's a lot of information but I was hoping someone had some ideas. My next step to combat the efficiency is to buy some grain from Bell's and use their mill. I changed the thermometer for my latest batch #5 in hopes of improving FG. Thanks for taking the time to read this!!:mug:

I should also note this is my first all-grain experience, I am a self taught homebrewer but have read a lot of homebrewing books.
 
My brew house efficiency is stuck in the low 60s, too. I'm curious to read what some of the experienced home brewers think.


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th Cap'n in Portland, Oregon
 
This could be in the wrong section, could the moderator move this to the appropriate section? Sorry for being a noob. Thanks!


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My brew house efficiency is stuck in the low 60s, too. I'm curious to read what some of the experienced home brewers think.


--
th Cap'n in Portland, Oregon

I know the biggest contributors that hurt efficiency would be poor milling, poor mixing of grain and water, and sparging too fast. That's why my next idea is to buy grain from a different supplier and use their mill. I just find it hard to believe that over the last few months of buying from the well known AIH that their mill would be milling incorrectly.
 
It's not that their mill is milling 'incorrectly', but more so that if they mill with a wider gap it creates a less fine crush, requiring you to purchase additional grain to compensate for lost efficiency. All companies do it...go to your LHBS and ask what their gap setting is, I guarantee it's somewhere around the factory setting. The best thing you can do is to purchase your own mill.

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Poor efficiency is often caused by a too coarse crush, and sparging too fast.

There can be other factors such as water, but I would go for the low hanging fruit first.

I am a solid 87% efficiency brewer, I condition my malt, and I crush pretty fine (.028") the finer you go the more easily the sugars can be extracted.

The sparge running too fast is another, I batch sparge, split my sparge into two seperate additions, stirring and then allowing 15 minutes to rest before draining each sparge addition.
If you are sparging too fast you aren't allowing the water time to extract the sugars from the grain. Try slowing your rate of water in and wort out and see if it helps.

Lastly the issue of a high final gravity, I had issues with dial thermometers being off, they would read dead on at room temp, but some were high at freezing, some were low at boiling, if your thermometer is off and you are thinking you are mashing at 150 but are actually closer to 155 you are going to have a lot of unfermentable sugars to contend with. I eventually switched to a Taylor digital thermometer with the calibration screw, it was like 10 dollars on Amazon, this served me quite well over the years and is My trusty backup even after getting a thermopen as a gift.

Just some food for thought.
 
Thanks guys, sounds like I'm heading in the right direction. I was looking at the mm3 or the capt crush but until purchasing should I run the grain through the mill twice? Would the efficiency improve or am I at a greater risk for astringency?


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Buy a mill and crush your own grains. Sounds like you will make up the cost real quick with improved efficiency. Going from 60% to 80% mash efficiency would reduce your grain by 25%. I regularly get around 85%,

When sparging make sure the sparge water is fully mixed.

High FG. Either you are mashing way too high which would mean you need to work on temps and temp measurement, or you are using a refractometer and not converting the reading.

Twice milled will help a little, but not too much, Anything smaller than the roller gap can pass through without being milled.
 
+1 on the thermometer. Been there, done that. Now I check my temps with at least two thermometers every time.

And if there's a discrepancy between two thermometers, I check with a third thermometer, figure out which one is off, chuck it and buy a new one to replace it.

And the "iodine test" is like looking at your car tires to see if they're properly inflated. Eyeballing the tires doesn't tell you what a tire gauge can tell you.

Lacking a better test for saccharification, though, you have to really focus on your grist, your temperatures, your pH, your technique, etc., and know that when everything is right, you'll get good conversion.

That said, I can calculate my "efficiency" at 60 percent or 80 percent. There are so many variables to play with, I can get pretty much any "efficiency" I want, really.

The only thing that I find useful about calculating efficiency is comparing my latest mash to my previous mashes. Beyond that, it's pretty dubious.
 
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