Poll: Do you have, or plan to get, an electric car?

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Do you have an electric car or plan to get one?

  • Yes

  • No

  • I plan to

  • Over my dead body


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Bilsch

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When I can come out of the mountains in the middle of nowhere for a week and stop at the local store and charge it.
There are approximately 150k filling stations in the US.
I guess everyone has their own comfort level. Remember though that map was only charging stations, not included was all the other places you can charge. Most importantly your own garage and where the great majority of all EV charging happens. I've had an EV for 3 years and not once have I been inconvenienced by not having enough options.
 

hout17

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I guess everyone has their own comfort level. Remember though that map was only charging stations, not included was all the other places you can charge. Most importantly your own garage and where the great majority of all EV charging happens. I've had an EV for 3 years and not once have I been inconvenienced by not having enough options.
Yeah but I'm talking about the middle of nowhere and being able to charge in some podunk town after being out on a trip.

I'm sure in highly populated areas it is great and it would be fine where I live now but I dont just plan on staying on pavement.
 

day_trippr

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Having lived in Colorado for awhile (for the skiing mostly...and to attend the University of Denver :D) and spending a lot of time up in the Divide over those years, even though the state is full of environmentally friendly citizens (honest to god people that lived in Evergreen were insufferably pious ;)) I would be...cautious...about going full EV. Heck, I can remember spending a night in Frisco sleeping in my truck because I couldn't find an open gas station, ffs!

Cheers!
 

Bilsch

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(honest to god people that lived in Evergreen were insufferably pious ;)) I would be...cautious...about going full EV. Heck, I can remember spending a night in Frisco sleeping in my truck because I couldn't find an open gas station, ffs!
Let me get this straight.. your recommending against EV because you had difficulty in the past finding open gas stations? Anywhere there is a plug in, a BEV has a place to fuel. Plenty more electric outlets in the world than gas pumps. But I get it some want to be far away from infrastructure and for those edge case renegades staying with ICE is the logical thing to do. For the rest of the 95% of the country BEVs will completely cover their daily mission with less hassle, repairs, maintenance and cost.

I don’t know about the good folks of Evergreen but I’m in this EV thing to save money and time not hug trees. That and be fuel independent by taking advantage of producing my own electrons for a mere fraction the cost of buying gas.

Next time you pay $50-$80 at the pump, remember me tanking up at my house for about 8 dollars.
 

Brooothru

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When I can come out of the mountains in the middle of nowhere for a week and stop at the local store and charge it.

There are approximately 150k filling stations in the US.

Looks like there are around 43k EV charging stations currently.
That's the sad reality. Plus, it doesn't take more than 5 minutes to fill an average car's tank with enough fuel to drive 300~400 miles.

I'm a strong advocate for EVs, and even drive a hybrid. But until charging stations are as ubiquitous as gas stations, and the recharging times are reduced to a more comparable interval to IC vehicles, I don't see EVs replacing ICs any time soon. That's really a bad thing. The world is/has been a hostage to geopolitical and global economic forces too long. And Mother Earth can't afford to wait for generational change.
 

Kent88

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The folks behind the Volt had a really good idea when they looked at how many miles the the average American drives, and made a PHEV that can go about or a little further than that many miles.

The discussion about charging limitations reminds me of an old post I made:

If a hypothetical BEV can reliably get 200 miles per full charge in the midwestern winter, and all the owner had access to was 8amp 120v charging (I estimate it charges about 3miles added per hour), and only drove it for work Monday-Friday, unplugging at 7am and plugging back in at 6pm, then from Friday at 6pm to Monday at 7am they'd be able to put on 183 miles of charge. So they'd need to have 17 miles in the battery on Friday at 5:59pm.

The BEV would be plugged in for 13 hours for 4 nights, adding 39 miles each night, for 156 miles added during monday night through thursday night. So the BEV would basically have 339 miles available to it Monday through Friday, or 67 miles per workday.

That keeps it fully charged on Mondays at 6:59am, in fairly cold midwestern winters from American Thanksgiving into March. After that, it gets better.

Having lived in fairly rural areas, I know 67 miles per workday isn't ideal, and even if the person had no social life and only went out for groceries and other essentials, that cuts into both miles and charge time. I definitely know some people that couldn't make such a situation work. But I also know some people that could certainly make it work, as they have some combination of less of a commute, modern wiring in their garage that can safely handle 12amp charging, access to level 2 fast chargers near places they shop, warmer climate, etc.
Doing a little recalculation, because vehicles that get 200 miles on a full charge in the midwestern winter, based on my experience with my Volt, might actually have a capacity rated at 250 miles. This tweaked how much charge there should be at 5:59pm on friday to have a full charge by monday morning. That gives the vehicle 289 miles available Monday through Friday.

That still leaves 57.8 miles available per day 5 days a week. And this is for the roughest quarter of the year in my part of the midwest. Definitely not ideal, but lots of people can make that work.

8 amp charging is the lowest tier of charging I am aware of. Anyone with an outlet in a garage (which, I know, excludes many apartment residents) can charge at 8amps.

Charging is not as big of a problem as it's made out to be. That said, the charging network absolutely needs to be improved/extended.
 

Kent88

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Not coming soon. Would require some gigantic--and by that I mean several orders of magnitude--strides in solar panel efficiency to make it anything more than a marketing gimmick.
They're indicating 40 miles gained on a sunny day with the vehicle parked out in the sun.

Even if they're talking about southern California, I'd still take 20 miles of gain on a summer day.

The big thing I need to see from this company is to actually get vehicles to the people who ordered them. Not that I'm planning on getting one, they're goofy looking two-seaters.

Why does the solar part of it make you skeptical?
 

day_trippr

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[...]Why does the solar part of it make you skeptical?
Oooh! I know! I know! [waives hand furiously 'til recognized ;)]

Because there's clearly not much solar reception surface at all and it takes a lot of watts to actually move a BEV anywhere!

So, sure, if you park the thing out in the sun for a week to drive to the grocery five miles away, you're good to go in the realm of really low expectations...

Cheers!
 

Kent88

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Oooh! I know! I know! [waives hand furiously 'til recognized ;)]

Because there's clearly not much solar reception surface at all and it takes a lot of watts to actually move a BEV anywhere!

So, sure, if you park the thing out in the sun for a week to drive to the grocery five miles away, you're good to go in the realm of really low expectations...

Cheers!


The car is designed to have as little air resistance as possible.

I'm skeptical about the 40 miles per day in full sun, and I wonder what difference a trunk full of stuff would do. And, you know, it's a goofy looking two-seater.

But I think that this shows a lot of promise, and there will be a place on the road for vehicles like these. It just remains to be seen whether this company will be selling them.
 

day_trippr

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Least likely concept to be successful.
There's nothing wrong with solar collector fields feeding the grid. I have to believe it's way more efficient than any alternatives right now...

Cheers!
 

Kent88

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The less stress we can put on the grid, the better.

Nobody is saying that it should be either on the car, or in a big array of panels.

I'm going to remain optimistic. I'm not going to preorder, and I wouldn't want to buy it in the first year or three that it's available. But I'm going to stay optimistic.
 

shipfaced

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Have a tri-motor Cybertruck on order, can't wait! Will sell the Tundra truck and Prius when it arrives cuz it will be the best of both. At least the same MPG (so to speak) as the Prius but it can carry/tow what a truck does. For me perfect, stainless steel, aero design, fast, no oil change maintenance, they promise 500 miles of range and it will kneel down so the motorcycle can load on easily.
 
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betarhoalphadelta

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Oooh! I know! I know! [waives hand furiously 'til recognized ;)]

Because there's clearly not much solar reception surface at all and it takes a lot of watts to actually move a BEV anywhere!

So, sure, if you park the thing out in the sun for a week to drive to the grocery five miles away, you're good to go in the realm of really low expectations...

Cheers!
Ding ding ding! And I'll add to that. It takes a lot less energy to propel a dinky little two-seater that looks like it wouldn't withstand an impact with a shopping cart 40 miles than an actual daily-driver BEV.

This is a proof of concept vehicle that throws "being an actual practical vehicle" out the window and the best case is 40 miles of range in a day.

They're indicating 40 miles gained on a sunny day with the vehicle parked out in the sun.

Even if they're talking about southern California, I'd still take 20 miles of gain on a summer day.

The big thing I need to see from this company is to actually get vehicles to the people who ordered them. Not that I'm planning on getting one, they're goofy looking two-seaters.

Why does the solar part of it make you skeptical?
I'm not skeptical about the concept. The basic concept makes sense. Cars are often in the sun, solar power is free, might as well add solar panels to the main horizontal surfaces of the vehicle (roof, front hood, rear deck lid).

And economically, you can make it pencil out. All you really need to do is provide more charging over the span of a 5-7 year life of the car (or more depending on how long you think you need to amortize) to justify the cost of the solar panels and some additional charging circuitry to add an additional source of power.

Environmentally, it also makes sense. Every watt of power you get from the sun is a watt of power that you don't have to get from coal or NG or even nuclear, and reduces the overall load on the electric grid for others.

However, there isn't enough surface area, and actual practical BEVs are so much heavier than something like the Aptera, that solar panels on the car actually make a meaningless difference to overall range of the vehicle. A full day of sun may in a perfect world get you 40 miles of range on the Aptera, but with much bigger electric motors, much heavier vehicles, and less perfect aerodynamics, would that perfect day of sun get you more than 10 miles of range in a Tesla? I doubt it.

It's like you telling me that you want to lose weight, and I say "well if you cut down on the beer, that'll help". And you say, "okay, I'm going to skip two beers a month." Will it help? Sure, that's 400 fewer calories, multiplied by 12 per year, you've reduced your intake by 4800 calories. And since the rule of thumb is that 3500 calories is a pound, you'll be dropping 1.5 lbs per year. That's a great thing! Of course, if you're 30 pounds overweight, a 20 year plan for weight loss isn't exactly meaningful.

That's where the tech is at right now. Yes, putting solar panels on an electric car is IMHO a net good, and I applaud the concept. I *think* it even pencils out economically. However, the effect with current tech is not large enough to really be noticeable. It won't likely mean that you'll get enough charge that you almost never need to plug in. It won't likely reduce your overall charging bill by a very measurable amount. It won't extend your range enough to make a big difference--you're getting 4-5 miles more a day, maybe.

People talking about solar panels on cars usually sell it as making a meaningful difference. I'm saying solar panels are a marginal improvement overall, but we need an order of magnitude more efficiency to get to meaningful.
 

Kent88

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Ding ding ding! And I'll add to that. It takes a lot less energy to propel a dinky little two-seater that looks like it wouldn't withstand an impact with a shopping cart 40 miles than an actual daily-driver BEV.

This is a proof of concept vehicle that throws "being an actual practical vehicle" out the window and the best case is 40 miles of range in a day.



I'm not skeptical about the concept. The basic concept makes sense. Cars are often in the sun, solar power is free, might as well add solar panels to the main horizontal surfaces of the vehicle (roof, front hood, rear deck lid).

And economically, you can make it pencil out. All you really need to do is provide more charging over the span of a 5-7 year life of the car (or more depending on how long you think you need to amortize) to justify the cost of the solar panels and some additional charging circuitry to add an additional source of power.

Environmentally, it also makes sense. Every watt of power you get from the sun is a watt of power that you don't have to get from coal or NG or even nuclear, and reduces the overall load on the electric grid for others.

However, there isn't enough surface area, and actual practical BEVs are so much heavier than something like the Aptera, that solar panels on the car actually make a meaningless difference to overall range of the vehicle. A full day of sun may in a perfect world get you 40 miles of range on the Aptera, but with much bigger electric motors, much heavier vehicles, and less perfect aerodynamics, would that perfect day of sun get you more than 10 miles of range in a Tesla? I doubt it.

It's like you telling me that you want to lose weight, and I say "well if you cut down on the beer, that'll help". And you say, "okay, I'm going to skip two beers a month." Will it help? Sure, that's 400 fewer calories, multiplied by 12 per year, you've reduced your intake by 4800 calories. And since the rule of thumb is that 3500 calories is a pound, you'll be dropping 1.5 lbs per year. That's a great thing! Of course, if you're 30 pounds overweight, a 20 year plan for weight loss isn't exactly meaningful.

That's where the tech is at right now. Yes, putting solar panels on an electric car is IMHO a net good, and I applaud the concept. I *think* it even pencils out economically. However, the effect with current tech is not large enough to really be noticeable. It won't likely mean that you'll get enough charge that you almost never need to plug in. It won't likely reduce your overall charging bill by a very measurable amount. It won't extend your range enough to make a big difference--you're getting 4-5 miles more a day, maybe.

People talking about solar panels on cars usually sell it as making a meaningful difference. I'm saying solar panels are a marginal improvement overall, but we need an order of magnitude more efficiency to get to meaningful.
I'm going to remain optimistic, but I'm not invested in this enough to argue about it, or debate whether it's practical enough.
 

betarhoalphadelta

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I'm going to remain optimistic, but I'm not invested in this enough to argue about it, or debate whether it's practical enough.
Fair enough. I wasn't really interested in "arguing" either.

I'm an electrical engineer. I was chiming in with the hope that it might help people better understand the promise, and the limits, of the technology as it currently exists. I'm not trying to be a wet blanket, although I'm sure it came across that way.
 

Kent88

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Fair enough. I wasn't really interested in "arguing" either.

I'm an electrical engineer. I was chiming in with the hope that it might help people better understand the promise, and the limits, of the technology as it currently exists. I'm not trying to be a wet blanket, although I'm sure it came across that way.
You are an EE, and I'm not a physicist.

I figured I might've sounded like I was arguing earlier and I didn't want to leave it with that impression.
 

Kent88

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I want to see this car succeed, but when this is their third completed vehicle and they've been working at it for years, have taken orders, and are suggesting they'll deliver vehicles fairly soon, it doesn't bode well.
 

Kent88

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Interesting, I never heard of that one before. Is it strictly solar, or can it also be plugged in too?
It can be plugged in during road trips or if you aren't getting enough sunlight.

It's air resistance is supposed to be less than the side mirror of an F150. I'm not a physicist, but they're claiming that once the resistance is that low it doesn't take much to propel it, which is why the solar panels can charge it so well, and why it only needs a 110v outlet to charge.

 
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For the rest of the 95% of the country BEVs will completely cover their daily mission with less hassle, repairs, maintenance and cost.

I don’t know about the good folks of Evergreen but I’m in this EV thing to save money and time not hug trees. That and be fuel independent by taking advantage of producing my own electrons for a mere fraction the cost of buying gas.

Next time you pay $50-$80 at the pump, remember me tanking up at my house for about 8 dollars.
Your savings might not be what you think it is. I only skimmed the report, so perhaps there is some inaccuracies or bias there. I'm sure you'll let me know haha. This was linked in the WSJ last week. Some costs there (deadhead miles, road taxes) might not apply to everyone.


1635337418045.png
 

Kent88

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Your savings might not be what you think it is. I only skimmed the report, so perhaps there is some inaccuracies or bias there. I'm sure you'll let me know haha. This was linked in the WSJ last week. Some costs there (deadhead miles, road taxes) might not apply to everyone.


View attachment 747041
"The authors go on to note the significant time costs imposed on EV drivers as a result of both inadequate infrastructure and wait times associated with fueling, which can be five to ten times the cost for ICE drivers."

My personal experience here prompts me to say no...

I plug my car in to standard household current, rarely set it from 8 to 12 amps, most of the charging is done overnight, EV range is rated at 53 miles by the manufacturer, and we rarely use the gas range extender for the 8 months of the year that my wife drives it to work everyday. My current 8 or 9 gallon gas tank has lasted over 2000 miles, which seems pretty typical for summer driving with this vehicle. I haven't had to postpone any driving because I've been low on battery, and since owning it (3 years or so) I can only remember a few times where I left my garage with under 20 miles of charge (edit: this probably isn't fair, as I am not this car's primary driver for much of the year).

I may not be the typical driver, but that's my experience.
 
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betarhoalphadelta

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Your savings might not be what you think it is. I only skimmed the report, so perhaps there is some inaccuracies or bias there. I'm sure you'll let me know haha. This was linked in the WSJ last week. Some costs there (deadhead miles, road taxes) might not apply to everyone.


View attachment 747041
Look at the composition. Driving 100 miles and you spend $9 dollars at a commercial charging station? Driving 100 miles and it takes you 2 hours at a commercial charging station?

This isn't referring to a commuter. This is referring to commercial vehicle applications.

For a typical person who has a typical BEV w/ >100 mile range, and who has a home charger, there is usually no need to use a commercial charging station except on road trips, which are typically infrequent compared to commuting. Even if you have a 50 mile commute, having a typical EV range (200+ miles) allows you to make a 100 mile round trip without requiring any commercial charging stations.

Now, the report is probably highly accurate for the application they're discussing, but that application is not a typical commuter or around-town driver.

So it isn't valid for most people in this thread about "Do you have or plan to get an electric car", because most of us aren't commercial drivers...
 

MaxStout

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Poll doesn't have a "giving it some thought" button.

We have 2 vehicles, both gas-powered. One is a car for around town, the other a small SUV for road trips and pulling a small camper. An EV would be very practical for the former, and that is what I think EVs are relegated to at this time. As for the long-hauler, the EV technology is not ready for prime time, IMO. We make frequent road trips to CA to visit family there. Usually takes 3 days each way, about 700 miles/day on average. We also do cross-country vacations. The only way I would consider an EV for that is if: 1) It has some power and a range of 600-700 miles, and 2) I can depend on getting an overnight charge at the Holiday Inn Express in Bumfark, Kansas. And pulling a camper--even our 1500lb popup? I'm not yet convinced.

My wife is retired and I'm semi-retired with a home-based solo law practice, so commuting isn't an issue. But I could see us in an EV for the various errands we do around the city. The runaround car (2013 Camry) is about due for trade-in the next year or two, once auto supply chain issues settle down. I would definitely consider an EV to replace that.
 

Kent88

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Poll doesn't have a "giving it some thought" button.
When you consider the Venn diagram of the poll, it's worth a chuckle

1) it's own thing
2) another "it's own thing"
3) a subset of 2 that is open to migrating to 1
4) a subset of 2 that has no intention of migrating to 1
 

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