Please critique my Pale Ale Recipe - suggestions?

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Nubiwan

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Trying to make something relatively simply. Just not sure what target IBU is for a US pale (30,35,40?). Had a few varieties lately, and like the way it is just a less potent style of IPA, and can also be a little maltier, if you desire. Least that is my impression of those I have had.

Recipe
11 Lbs 2 Row
1 Lb Crystal 60

Hops all Cascade
Was going use cascade to bitter, but could use something like Columbus or Willamette (SP) as I have that in the fridge
Definitely using cascade as late additions. Just not sure what target IBU should be.

Yeast US-05
 

VikeMan

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If you don't know what bitterness level you'd prefer, 40 (Tinseth) IBUs would make a nice middle of the road target for an APA, assuming you're planning to stay within other style parameters.
 
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Nubiwan

Nubiwan

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Looks similar to the clone recipe for Sierra Nevada Pale Ale recipe at their web site.

40-ish IBUs, like @VikeMan suggested, would be a good starting point.
I knew I'd seen it some place. That is exactly where I got it. I'll go with that as a base. I am BIAB, and lazy, so it will only get a 60 Minute mash. I'll match up the IBU based on that, and late additions. Might as well go all cascade as they do.
 

D.B.Moody

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I would be concerned with that high of a lovibond crystal malt reducing the hop aroma/flavor while waiting for carbonation.
I don't understand this and would like to know about it. I bottle and use crystal malts, so I need to know about crystal malt causing hop degradation. Could you elaborate on this?
 

mschieve

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I don't understand this and would like to know about it. I bottle and use crystal malts, so I need to know about crystal malt causing hop degradation. Could you elaborate on this?
In my experience using a malt like Crystal 60 turns my IPA/APA into an amber ale while waiting for bottle conditioning.
 

D.B.Moody

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In my experience using a malt like Crystal 60 turns my IPA/APA into an amber ale while waiting for bottle conditioning.
Is that in comparison to when you keg? Is that is comparison to when you brew an IPA with a lighter crystal malt? Or is it that hop flavor/aronma just fades when you bottle?
 
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Nubiwan

Nubiwan

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I would be concerned with that high of a lovibond crystal malt reducing the hop aroma/flavor while waiting for carbonation.
That is interesting. This is the exact recipe from the Sierra Nevada (Pale Ale) website.

Do you think the impact is from the Crystal or from simply oxidation, as with man IPA's losing their hop umph. I have used EDITED: ascorbic acid in the past to maintain the flora of the hops. Worked well for me. I might throw a teaspoon in before I bottle. Thanks for the note though. Keep me on my toes. I'll have to keep an eye on this development.
 
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Nubiwan

Nubiwan

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In my experience using a malt like Crystal 60 turns my IPA/APA into an amber ale while waiting for bottle conditioning.
And why not in the keg? What is different in keg carbing/conditioning?
 
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That is interesting. This is the exact recipe from the Sierra Nevada (Pale Ale) website.

Do you think the impact is from the Crystal or from simply oxygenation, as with man IPA's losing their hop umph. I have used citric acid in the past to maintain the flora of the hops. Worked well for me. I might throw a teaspoon in before I bottle. Thanks for the note though. Keep me on my toes. I'll have to keep an eye on this development.
Not to hijack the thread, but does citric acid at kegging/bottling brighten hops or reduce oxidation of beer? I acidify (or not) my mash/sparge/kettle wort as needed per recipe already.
 
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Nubiwan

Nubiwan

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Not to hijack the thread, but does citric acid at kegging/bottling brighten hops or reduce oxidation of beer? I acidify (or not) my mash/sparge/kettle wort as needed per recipe already.
My apologies! I just corrected my earlier post. It was Ascorbic acid I used. Not citric. I did an experiment with an IPA some time ago. I mixed about 5 grams (a teaspoon) of Ascorbic Acid in with about 6 gallons of my IPA before bottling. I found little to no degradation of hop flavour - or change in colour due to oxidation - over a 2 month period the bottles lasted. Might have been a little longer. Thread is here IPA and Ascorbic Acid

Think it fair to say that ascorbic acid (aka Vitamin C) is found in many marketed foods/drinks in order to stop them going off, oxidizing etc. Why not for beer? Doesn't hurt the beer taste at all.
 
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My apologies! I just corrected my earlier post. It was Ascorbic acid I used. Not citric. I did an experiment with an IPA some time ago. I mixed about 5 grams (a teaspoon) of Ascorbic Acid in with about 6 gallons of my IPA before bottling. I found little to no degradation of hop flavour - or change in colour due to oxidation - over a 2 month period the bottles lasted. Might have been a little longer. Thread is here IPA and Ascorbic Acid

Think it fair to say that ascorbic acid (aka Vitamin C) is found in many marketed foods/drinks in order to stop them going off, oxidizing etc. Why not for beer? Doesn't hurt the beer taste at all.
I need to try this!
 

bracconiere

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i'd hate that much crystal 60 in a 5 gallon batch? i'd do maybe a pound of light munich or something, and maybe 2-3-4ozs crystal 60....for a pale ale anyway, if you were shooting for a stout/porter, then maybe a full half pound of the crystal?


but that's my opinion.....
 
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Nubiwan

Nubiwan

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i'd hate that much crystal 60 in a 5 gallon batch? i'd do maybe a pound of light munich or something, and maybe 2-3-4ozs crystal 60....for a pale ale anyway, if you were shooting for a stout/porter, then maybe a full half pound of the crystal?


but that's my opinion.....
I'll see how I like the final product. It is "afterall" the brewers recipe Sierra Nevada Brew Co. Recipe

Pretty sure I se Crystal 60 in my Ambers, and usually like them. Might have been C-40. Been a while, and I usually don't make the exact same thing that often. Would probably fail even if I tried, as my notes and process always have some slight/major variant.
 

toxdoc49

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Looks similar to the clone recipe for Sierra Nevada Pale Ale recipe at their web site.

40-ish IBUs, like @VikeMan suggested, would be a good starting point.
I'd like to ask a question about these sorts of IPA recipes - being relatively new to all grain brewing, but realizing the advantages of such, I'm beginning to wonder how one can dial down some of the malt backbone flavor of IPA recipes. I am guessing (perhaps wrongly) that you could just use less 2-row, but then was to replace it with? I'm looking for less malt flavor in the finished beer. I realize that there may be several answers to this question, in terms of what one would replace the diminished 2-row with. I don't have software but perhaps this would help answer the question, although I bet those with much more all grain experience can give some input, thanks.
 
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I have found that when a IPA/Pale Ale comes across as too malty, it's usually too much crystal malt for my palate. I much prefer a light crystal (40), and not much if any at all. Maybe adding something biscuity or toasted (vienna or munich or victory or amber) might add a little complexity without being cloying, but again, not much.
 

toxdoc49

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Thanks for that input; I’m definitely going to try adjusting the grain bill with those suggestions. At least I am to the point where I feel more comfortable adjusting the amount of the various grains in the recipe
 
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Nubiwan

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The Verdict:

Figure we don't see enough end product on these forums. Plenty people asking questions, but few results ever posted, after the questions been answered, if any. While still very young in the bottle, here is something of an update - for any who care.

As you can see, I am a lowly bottler. My larger than average offspring volume (4 kids) is lucky to permit me a few buckets, a bag and a kettle, let alone a 3 vessel kegging outfit. Lautering will have to wait.

So the APA has been in the bottle 1 week. I always give a bottle or two a go after a week to check carbonation. It generally results in rather rapid consumption of green beer unfortunately. Before cooling, I can see right thru the bottles. Very clear. I assume what I am seeing in the glass is chill haze. Not much I can do about that but wait, I suppose. Got a couple of older lagers in back of fridge, and they are now quite bright. I doubt these APA will make it that long.

I have been drinking a fair bit of QV APA lately (see picture). One of my favourite beer styles of late. This SNPA Clone I made is a decent rendition of the QV product. In a week or two, if they last, then I should be getting a little better head retention, lacing, what have you.

I am beginning to get what people say about quantity of Crystal malts in these styles. While I do like the taste, my hop additions and bitterness are spot on, there is a certain amount of (what others have termed) "cloying taste" with crystal. Its not an entirely bad thing, and I can see how some might really like it, even strive for it, but I think my beer would be improved if I could some how remove that (what seems to me) later after taste in this beer.

As such, I made up a batch of what is actually deemed an amber lager yesterday. 11 LBS 2-row, 1 LB Munich, and just 0.5 LB C-40. Also using a lager yeast, so it will likely be quite different. I want to see how much of the crystal I can perceive.
 

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tennesseean_87

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I'd like to ask a question about these sorts of IPA recipes - being relatively new to all grain brewing, but realizing the advantages of such, I'm beginning to wonder how one can dial down some of the malt backbone flavor of IPA recipes. I am guessing (perhaps wrongly) that you could just use less 2-row, but then was to replace it with? I'm looking for less malt flavor in the finished beer. I realize that there may be several answers to this question, in terms of what one would replace the diminished 2-row with. I don't have software but perhaps this would help answer the question, although I bet those with much more all grain experience can give some input, thanks.
I'd cut down the crystal malt first. You can try to cut it out completely and use something like MO for base malt that'll give less caramel sweetness but some maltiness. Or 2row and another character malt like victory, amber, etc. or a couple pounds of vienna or munich to get malty without caramel. You could cut down the 2row and replace with sugar to get alcohol with less malt character.

You could also lower the mash temp to get a drier beer. You could also scale the malt bill to a lower gravity if you don't mind that--go for a session IPA.

Emphasizing SO4 over Cl in your water will also help.
 
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Nubiwan

Nubiwan

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The Verdict:

........... bla bla bla

As such, I made up a batch of what is actually deemed an amber lager yesterday. 11 LBS 2-row, 1 LB Munich, and just 0.5 LB C-40. Also using a lager yeast, so it will likely be quite different. I want to see how much of the crystal I can perceive.
Its clearing in the fermenter. Been tasting it last few days, for not particular reason, and its clearly halted around 1.008. I am having trouble finding time to bottle it.

Its got a very nice bitter kick to it, but so hard to tell what the final issue will be like.
 
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