Please critique my DIPA recipe

[Jayjay1976]

Hello Friends,

Just looking for some suggestions/opinions on a recipe. I'm mostly unsure of the hopping schedule and overall concept, maybe you can help me avoid a disaster with my first DIPA.

Title: Vienna Mandarina DIPA
Author: JayJay1976
Brew Method: BIAB
Style Name: Double IPA
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 6.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7.75 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.063
Efficiency: 70% (brew house)
STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.075
Final Gravity: 1.013
ABV (standard): 8.25%
IBU (tinseth): 100.7
SRM (morey): 8.63
Mash pH: 5.22
FERMENTABLES:
18.25 lb - German - Vienna (95.8%)
4.75 oz - German - Acidulated Malt (1.6%)
0.5 lb - Belgian - CaraVienne (2.6%)
HOPS:
45 g - Rakau, Type: Pellet, AA: 10.5, Use: First Wort, IBU: 47.59
25 g - Rakau, Type: Pellet, AA: 10.5, Use: Boil for 45 min, IBU: 22.06
25 g - Tettnang US, Type: Pellet, AA: 5.5, Use: Boil for 30 min, IBU: 9.67
25 g - Mandarina Bavaria, Type: Pellet, AA: 9.5, Use: Boil for 15 min, IBU: 10.79
25 g - Mandarina Bavaria, Type: Pellet, AA: 9.5, Use: Boil for 1 min, IBU: 0.94
25 g - Mandarina Bavaria, Type: Pellet, AA: 9.5, Use: Whirlpool for 20 min at 170 °F, IBU: 9.65
1 g - Mandarina Bavaria, Type: Pellet, AA: 9.5, Use: Dry Hop for 14 days
1 g - Mandarina Bavaria, Type: Pellet, AA: 9.5, Use: Dry Hop for 7 days
MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Temperature, Temp: 155 F, Time: 60 min, Amount: 8.75 gal
OTHER INGREDIENTS:
2 g - Calcium Chloride, Time: 60 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash
1 g - Epsom Salt, Time: 60 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash
8 g - Gypsum, Time: 60 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash
0.8 g - Table Salt, Time: 60 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash
0.5 g - Magnesium Chloride, Time: 60 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash
YEAST:
Wyeast - German Ale 1007
Starter: Yes
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 75%
Flocculation: Low
Optimum Temp: 55 - 68 F
Pitch Rate: 1.0 (M cells / ml / deg P)
TARGET WATER PROFILE:
Profile Name: Light colored and hoppy
Ca2: 75
Mg2: 5
Na: 10
Cl: 50
SO4: 150
HCO3: 0
Water Notes:

 

[Jayjay1976]

Anyone? Brewing this on sunday, could really use some advice.

 

[Wayne1]

First, you need to send me some Rakau.
2nd loose the 45 and 30 min addition. put the 45 Rakau into the Whirlpool.
Ferment around 63 f for 2-3 days. Raise to 68 for diacetyl rest. Drop to 60. Pull yeast and start dry hop.

Good Luck.

 

[HTH1975]

With such a big beer I’d add around 10-15% sugar to keep the body from being too thick.

I’d also double the amount of calcium as it’s quite a big beer. It will help with all stages of the process. Depending on how ‘minerally’ you like it, I’d go with at least 100 chloride and 150 sulphates.

If your alkalinity is really zero, I don’t see the need for the acidulated malt. Does your mash normally settle in the 5.2-5-4 range? My worry would be that your mash pH would overshoot into the 4.9-5.1 range.

68C seems quite high to mash a big beer like this. It’s could end up overly sweet and viscous with a high mash temp and no sugar to dry it out a little.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Thanks for the replies, I'll make some tweaks and post an update!
I've been reading about mandarina hops on kegerator.com and I'm now more confident in it as a bittering hop so I will replace the tettnang with more of the mandarina bavaria. I also have some hüll melon so I'm thinking about alternating between that and mandarina for all the late additions. I also might eliminate the rakau and just focus on the other two hops.

@Wayne1 should I eliminate the 30 and 45 additions and just increase the 60 minute charge?

@HTH1975 I'm brewing with 100% RO so I believe it has zero alkalinity. What mash temp do you recommend?

 

[mcgearybrewing]

I agree with HTH, go for a mash temp between 148-150 and why the German yeast, are you going for the low diacetyl or the fruitiness it can bring?

 

[HTH1975]

As above, I’d also query the yeast choice as it’s not bringing anything to the party. You’re making a DIPA, so a basic clean yeast like Saf-05 would be fine imo. Or if you want a bit character from the yeast, try Saf-04 at the warmer end of the spectrum.

As for mash temp, 65C all the way for that beer.

 

[Homergah]

Interesting choice for yeast. I personally wouldn't use it for my first attempt at a dipa. Although you probably already have this strain which may be your reason, and the fact that you're going with a German theme. I would go with something a bit more neutral and more flocculent, so as to stay out of the way of the main event, the mandarina. Just my personal thoughts. Oh, and please keep your early hop additions, you're making a Dipa after all.

 

[tegman]

I'd consider throwing another hop variety in with the Mandarina Bavaria additions. I find this hop to be a bit lacking when standing alone. Maybe a bit of Vic Secret or Citra.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Interesting choice for yeast. I personally wouldn't use it for my first attempt at a dipa. Although you probably already have this strain which may be your reason, and the fact that you're going with a German theme. I would go with something a bit more neutral and more flocculent, so as to stay out of the way of the main event, the mandarina. Just my personal thoughts. Oh, and please keep your early hop additions, you're making a Dipa after all.

I like the 1007 German ale strain because it ferments well at room temp and throws a bit of flavor, I do like yeast character. I typically make a big starter and pitch at 59f to start off clean. I can switch to the US-04, no problem. I do see your point about letting the hops shine.

 

[Jayjay1976]

I'd consider throwing another hop variety in with the Mandarina Bavaria additions. I find this hop to be a bit lacking when standing alone. Maybe a bit of Vic Secret or Citra.

I have Hüll melon, these two are nice together no? I also have Rakau and Hallertau blanc. I tend to brew with German hops so I don't have any citra on hand but I can get some.

 

[tegman]

I have Hüll melon, these two are nice together no? I also have Rakau and Hallertau blanc. I tend to brew with German hops so I don't have any citra on hand but I can get some.

I'd go with the Hallertau. Shares the cascade lineage with Hull Melon and Mandarina. If you do let us know how it turns out. I'm tempted to try this combination now.

I recently brewed a cream ale with Hull and Mandarina. Didn't jump out like I expected. YMMV

 

[Jayjay1976]

I'd go with the Hallertau. Shares the cascade lineage with Hull Melon and Mandarina. If you do let us know how it turns out. I'm tempted to try this combination now.

I recently brewed a cream ale with Hull and Mandarina. Didn't jump out like I expected. YMMV

Okay I'll use those three together, should I divide up each addition between them or alternate with each addition?

 

[tegman]

I'd lean towards the Mandarina and Blanc for the whirpool and shift to Blanc and Huell for the dry hop. I feel like this hop combo might be better suited for a single IPA or pale ale. It'll be interesting to see how it holds up to all that grain, should you choose to go this way. I'd def. dry it out as well.

 

[Homergah]

I like the 1007 German ale strain because it ferments well at room temp and throws a bit of flavor, I do like yeast character. I typically make a big starter and pitch at 59f to start off clean. I can switch to the US-04, no problem. I do see your point about letting the hops shine.

If I had to choose between the two, I would go with the 1007. Sounds like it will accentuate well. If you start leaning towards S 04 you may as well get the real thing, wyeast 1968. You will get a tremendous fruit/floral pop that really plays well with your hop. And it's fairly stable after repeated repitching. I reused the same yeast for nearly two years before it lost the habit of flocculating. Now we call that "Conan". But honestly, after digging around a bit I find quite a few references to 1007. Sounds like it makes an excellent ipa.

 

[HB_ATL73]

1 g - Mandarina Bavaria, Type: Pellet, AA: 9.5, Use: Dry Hop for 14 days
1 g - Mandarina Bavaria, Type: Pellet, AA: 9.5, Use: Dry Hop for 7 days

1g? isn't that a terribly small amount of hops to dry hop with? I would imagine that would give you an inconsequential amount of flavor/aroma

 

[Jayjay1976]

I took a look at the hopping schedule from a clone recipe for Pliny the Elder; based on that I extended the boil time to 90 and reworked the hopping substituting columbus/centennial/simcoe with Mandarina, Hüll melon, and Hallertau blanc, arranging the additions according to some of the feedback above. I also replaced some of the grain with white sugar, dropped the acid malt, and adjusted the mash temp. Oh, and I doubled the calcium.

Title: Vienna Mandarina DIPA
Author: Meee

Brew Method: BIAB
Style Name: Double IPA
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 6.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 7.75 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.062
Efficiency: 70% (brew house)


STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.074
Final Gravity: 1.014
ABV (standard): 7.83%
IBU (tinseth): 118.33
SRM (morey): 7.62
Mash pH: 5.59 <---Too high?? Add some acid malt?

FERMENTABLES:
15 lb - German - Vienna (87.2%)
0.5 lb - Belgian - CaraVienne (2.9%)
1.7 lb - Cane Sugar (9.9%)

HOPS:
2.5 oz - Mandarina Bavaria, Type: Pellet, AA: 9.5, Use: Boil for 90 min, IBU: 66.83
0.75 oz - Hallertau Blanc, Type: Pellet, AA: 10, Use: Boil for 45 min, IBU: 18.11
0.75 oz - Huell Melon, Type: Pellet, AA: 7.2, Use: Boil for 30 min, IBU: 10.92
1 oz - Mandarina Bavaria, Type: Pellet, AA: 9.5, Use: Whirlpool for 20 min at 170 °F, IBU: 10.95
1 oz - Hallertau Blanc, Type: Pellet, AA: 10, Use: Whirlpool for 20 min at 170 °F, IBU: 11.52
1.5 oz - Huell Melon, Type: Pellet, AA: 7.2, Use: Dry Hop for 14 days
1.5 oz - Hallertau Blanc, Type: Pellet, AA: 10, Use: Dry Hop for 14 days
0.5 oz - Huell Melon, Type: Pellet, AA: 7.2, Use: Dry Hop for 5 days
0.5 oz - Hallertau Blanc, Type: Pellet, AA: 10, Use: Dry Hop for 5 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Temperature, Temp: 149 F, Time: 60 min, Amount: 8.75 gal

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
2.5 g - Calcium Chloride, Time: 60 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash
9 g - Gypsum, Time: 60 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash
0.8 g - Table Salt, Time: 60 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash
0.5 g - Magnesium Chloride, Time: 60 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash
4 g - Slaked Lime, Time: 60 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash

YEAST:
Wyeast - German Ale 1007
Starter: Yes
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 75%
Flocculation: Low
Optimum Temp: 55 - 68 F
Pitch Rate: 1.0 (M cells / ml / deg P)

TARGET WATER PROFILE:
Profile Name: Light colored and hoppy
Ca2: 150
Mg2: 5
Na: 10
Cl: 50
SO4: 150
HCO3: 0
Water Notes: 100% RO

 

[Jayjay1976]

1g? isn't that a terribly small amount of hops to dry hop with? I would imagine that would give you an inconsequential amount of flavor/aroma

yeah I saw that, it was a glitch in the calculator. should have been 25g ea.

 

[ProblemChild]

I a like what I hear above. Mash low - 148°F - 150°F. use sugar to help drive down FG.

I would be inclined to not use Mandarina at 60. I would use Warrior, Apollo, somehting with a high alpha to bitter - especially at 90 min. Move all that lovely Mandarina to the 5-day dry-hop

 

[Jayjay1976]

I a like what I hear above. Mash low - 148°F - 150°F. use sugar to help drive down FG.

I would be inclined to not use Mandarina at 60. I would use Warrior, Apollo, somehting with a high alpha to bitter - especially at 90 min. Move all that lovely Mandarina to the 5-day dry-hop

I gotta bitter with something, and this is what I got. I have a couple pounds of Mandarina I need to use up and I want to push the citrus fruit flavors in this beer.

Edit: I might do some dried orange peel in secondary as well. Generally looking to avoid that, but I ain't above it.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Change of plans, I think I'll ferment this with Voss Kveik because at warmer temps it throws fruity, citrusy esters that will go nicely with the hops I've chosen. Its also highly attenuative and floccs well.

 

[Wayne1]

Very good choice on the Kveik yeast for room temp fermentation. I have used it a few times and it is very clean.

I like to use a lower amount of initial hops and add in the bittering additions at 15 mins. That will produce a smoother bitter without harshness. I tend to go about a calculated 20 IBU as FWH and then about 60 IBU at 15 and 40ish at whirlpool.

Good luck!

 

[Jayjay1976]

Very good choice on the Kveik yeast for room temp fermentation. I have used it a few times and it is very clean.

I like to use a lower amount of initial hops and add in the bittering additions at 15 mins. That will produce a smoother bitter without harshness. I tend to go about a calculated 20 IBU as FWH and then about 60 IBU at 15 and 40ish at whirlpool.

Good luck!

If it really does ferment fast and clean at room temp, and is capable of bottle conditioning in 3-4 days it might become my house strain for everything. I've had trouble with hops fading by the time the bottles are carbonated which is why I've not brewed many IPAs. This kveik strain may be the answer.

I'm also kinda curious how kveik would work in Belgian ale fermented hot, would the yeast character be totally off? Are the esters it produces belgian-y? Never tasted a norwegian beer so I have no idea what to expect.

 

[Wayne1]

That is the fun thing, for me, about the Kveik strain. There are NO Belgian-y esters. Just very clean. I have fermented this yeast in the middle 80's and it was just clean. Other brewers in town have run it into the 90's with no Belgian flavors.

 

[Jayjay1976]

My yeast arrived yesterday, a pouch of Voss and a pouch of Hornindal. I'm thinking about using the voss for this beer and saving the hornindal for something else.

 

[Jayjay1976]

I brewed this recipe on 2/18 with a few on-the-fly adjustments mostly to the dry hopping schedule. Planning to bottle this on Saturday so I just drew a gravity sample, its spot-on at 1.012; the sample tasted delicious with very pronounced citrus notes and an almost candy-like mandarin orange aroma that reminds me of sunny-d. I can hardly wait until its ready to drink!!

 

[6Tap]

I brewed this recipe on 2/18 with a few on-the-fly adjustments mostly to the dry hopping schedule. Planning to bottle this on Saturday so I just drew a gravity sample, its spot-on at 1.012; the sample tasted delicious with very pronounced citrus notes and an almost candy-like mandarin orange aroma that reminds me of sunny-d. I can hardly wait until its ready to drink!!

Keep us posted on the outcome.
I’m very interested in the flavor and aroma of the hop combination. Thanks