Plate Chiller for HERMS

[WortMonger]

OK, I understand that direct steam injection is what your system is about kladue (I am thinking about that as well in another train of thought). I am just wondering though if this coil would work for heat exchange the way I have drawn?

I am going between this thread and the other steam injection threads, but relevant to this thread... is this a good coil design?

Also kladue, what would be the most efficient size tubing to use for this type of application?

 

[ScubaSteve]

Dude...stop having cool illustrations....it's getting out of hand

 

[WortMonger]

LOL, I am a horrible verbal communicator. Typing... even more so. I have to draw to feel I get my point across and so others can explain specific to my idea. Well, there's that and... I also use it as practice for cool beer labels lol.

Hey, you guys should count yourself lucky I didn't get really excited about it and post a "foot-long," detailed, question or proposal, lol.

I just hope to get some good answers based on the proposal of "if, using the Therminator as a heat exchanger" type stuff while I am researching direct steam injection or in-line steam injection in other threads. kladue is the "Steam Guy" around these parts so I await his knowledge on this.

 

[ScubaSteve]

He really is. In your case, since you're just producing steam, gpm should be less of an issue with your boiler. Just make sure you've got a slow trickle in there, and it'll continuously blow steam. Even if it comes out as water, it ought to be pretty hot...so you should still be able to step up your mash. In the confines of the therminator, I'm sure it'll be used very efficiently. Just make sure your final output is shielded, because steam burns can be terrible.

Or, you could just direct-fire recirc and call it a day

 

[WortMonger]

I am leaning more and more that direction. After reading more kladue, and seeing how he uses his, I am leaning to a direct-steam-fired in-line type of manifold. I am going to sanitize the Therminator and kegs with the beast though, which makes me very happy. I am really wondering about the coil design here though. Take away the Therminator and attach your connection hose to the return manifold and it is what kladue, you, and others recommend. I am just confused about the design of the coils. I figure this slowly "always" spiraling upward would be a good design of coil but I have no idea.

 

[BrewBeemer]

My fear would be the Therminator would run extra hot at times when you had a high water volume input causing a high steam temp moment or surge that may help cook or pack up debris during recirculation. The handy part you can use the boiler to back flush the Therminator afterwards.
Herer you are playing with steam boilers and my neighbor every year must get his 450# 5' long steam locomotive's boil certified every year. I believe his maximum operating pressure allowed is 90 psi this with only a small volume of water in the boiler.

 

[WortMonger]

I would think the Therminator would run at 212*F to 250*F, but I don't know for sure. I am unsure how hot the steam could get coming out of the flash boiler. This was what I was hoping to find out.

 

[WPStrassburg]

Wort, did you ever get the heat exchanger hooked up utilizing steam? I'm still in the layout stages of my system, but I've been tossing around the idea of using my ITT brand brazed plate exchanger with a small electric heated steam generator instead of a huge HLT. Direct injection of the steam into wort kinda freaks me out too due to the precipitants and other funky stuff that develops in steam.

What volume of water were you working with when you achieved the 1 deg per minute temp rise?

I've never seen the btu rating for the therminators so I'd like to compare it to mine.


Forgot the P-T chart for steam in case you everyone doesn't already have one. 15 psi is just less than 250 dF

http://www.indpipe.com/images/PDF/steam_temperature_pressure_table.pdf


-Walter

 

[WortMonger]

Wort, did you ever get the heat exchanger hooked up utilizing steam? I'm still in the layout stages of my system, but I've been tossing around the idea of using my ITT brand brazed plate exchanger with a small electric heated steam generator instead of a huge HLT. Direct injection of the steam into wort kinda freaks me out too due to the precipitants and other funky stuff that develops in steam.

Nope, still debating my setup. GreenMonti has done some miraculous stuff lately and has me really thinking. I would still like to use my Therminator as the heat exchanger though. I am building a flash boiler (still waiting on design resolve) and will probably do experiments with the Therminator. It is just too simple if it works, I mean I would have a flash boiler supplying heat exchanger heat... possible boiling power now (thank you GreenMonti)... and then without changing the setup up a chiller that I could have a pre-chiller (if the flash boiler coils can be contained and ice water added prior to the Therminator. Just sounds like a sick setup.

What volume of water were you working with when you achieved the 1 deg per minute temp rise?

Obviously meant for someone else

I've never seen the btu rating for the therminators so I'd like to compare it to mine.

Check out the Blichmann website. I think they give all the cooling BTU numbers you would need. Now, heating BTU's I would love to have (I'm dumb with stuff like this so if they are the same, I would really like to know).

Forgot the P-T chart for steam in case you everyone doesn't already have one. 15 psi is just less than 250 dF

Yep, got that from my pressure canner book. I'm thinking a little pressure achieved on the exit port of the Therminator is going to be a good thing, and not to dangerously high either. Something like running from garden hose fittings down to 1/4" fittings would build a lot of pressure needed for extra heat. Maybe even smaller diameter would be better... this is the stuff I am researching now.