Planning my first sour, need advice

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Caleb1980

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After several batches I thing I'm ready to start a long aging project. Sours have quickly become a favorite of mine and it's time to start one. I'm not a huge fan of Flanders reds or browns. I have really enjoyed the Logsdon saison Brett, and Anchoridge Love Buzz, as examples of what I'd like to shoot for. I'll be using an extract recipe as a base.
Any suggestions for yeasts? I would like to add the bugs to the secondays to keep my plastics clean untill I need to bottle. Still in the planning stages, but for a year or longer project I don't want to jump into anything too quickly. I also have access to both of those beers if adding dreggs would be an option.Thanks for any advice
Caleb
 

JoeLindley

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A nice yeast mix is wlp670, sacc + brett. It will make a good, funky farmhouse ale using a saison or biere de garde recipe. You won't need a year, but 5 months in a single fermenter would be good.
 
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Caleb1980

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thanks! that's exactly what i'm going for (a funky farmhouse saison) i'll see if the local shop can order it for me if not i'll search the web. Getting excited for this project.

Edit: So, could i just brew a saison as usual and add the 670 after a week? I could leave it in primary or transfer it to a secondary. Also, if i buy a bottle of the Logsdon on the day i add the yeast could i just toss in the last of the bottle (at the same time as the 670)? Sorry about the beginner questions. This is all new to me.
 

AmandaK

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Here's a good thread on WLP670.

Cliff notes: add it like every other yeast in the primary. Leave it in the primary. Yes, you can add bottle dregs.
 

RobertRGeorge

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Adding that WLP 670 didn't make a "sour" for me, though the beer did taste like it had run off Luther's boots. I had a batch of cream ale that I felt had been contaminated, and I tasted it against the saisson that used the 670, and darned if they weren't quite similar. Guess I've got an extra 5 gallons of farmhouse ale!
 

Embracethefunk

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Adding that WLP 670 didn't make a "sour" for me, though the beer did taste like it had run off Luther's boots. I had a batch of cream ale that I felt had been contaminated, and I tasted it against the saisson that used the 670, and darned if they weren't quite similar. Guess I've got an extra 5 gallons of farmhouse ale!
WLP670 will never make a beer "sour". Brettanomyces doesn't sour. Bacterias like lacto and pedio just to name a couple are souring microbes. Brettanomyces isn't a bacteria, it's a wild Sacc strain.
 

Embracethefunk

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After several batches I thing I'm ready to start a long aging project. Sours have quickly become a favorite of mine and it's time to start one. I'm not a huge fan of Flanders reds or browns. I have really enjoyed the Logsdon saison Brett, and Anchoridge Love Buzz, as examples of what I'd like to shoot for. I'll be using an extract recipe as a base.
Any suggestions for yeasts? I would like to add the bugs to the secondays to keep my plastics clean untill I need to bottle. Still in the planning stages, but for a year or longer project I don't want to jump into anything too quickly. I also have access to both of those beers if adding dreggs would be an option.Thanks for any advice
Caleb
Gabe gave the exact recipe for Love Buzz in my interview with him last year:
http://embracethefunk.com/2012/03/09/gabe-fletcher-of-anchorage-brewing-company-qa-recipe/
 

RobertRGeorge

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WLP670 will never make a beer "sour". Brettanomyces doesn't sour. Bacterias like lacto and pedio just to name a couple are souring microbes. Brettanomyces isn't a bacteria, it's a wild Sacc strain.
Yeah, I was just responding to the WLP part.
 
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Caleb1980

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Thanks for all the replys! I did manage to find some 670 at the local shop, although it says best by 1.9.13. That's cutting it awful close, should i bring up a starter? Otherwise, i'll be brewing my usual saison recipe, and just add the dregs of a logsdon and the vile of 670 as usual and keep it in the 5 gallon carboy for a few (4-6) months and then finish to taste. Does this sound reasonable?
Thanks for the love buzz recipe, i think i may add some peppercorns, rosehips and citrus peel to get closer to that flavor.
 

JoeLindley

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In general, with microbial mixes like WLP670, a starter is not recommended. Yes, going with the 670 in primary for 5 months and then 1 month in bottles should give you what you want.
 

dinnerstick

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WLP670 will never make a beer "sour". Brettanomyces doesn't sour. Bacterias like lacto and pedio just to name a couple are souring microbes. Brettanomyces isn't a bacteria, it's a wild Sacc strain.
whoa.... brettanomyces is brettanomyces, not saccharomyces! different genus. and it will (/can) produce acetic acid when it ferments aerobically, but indeed as you point out tends to produce little to no acetic acid under anaerobic conditions. this is not my idea, it's a well characterized phenomenon of multiple brett strains
 

Calder

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In general, with microbial mixes like WLP670, a starter is not recommended. Yes, going with the 670 in primary for 5 months and then 1 month in bottles should give you what you want.
WLP670 is not a 'microbial mix', it is just a mixture of 2 yeasts. The sacc will be the dominant strain and reproduce aerobically, while the slower brett will be slow and be left to reproduce anaerobically ... which is what you want.

Making a starter will just strengthen the sacc (which is what you want) while the brett will not change much. For a sacc/brett mix like WLP670, I would recommend a starter; you still want the beer to get off to a decent start.
 
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Caleb1980

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I brewed this afternoon. Everything went smoothly, i pitched the 670 (no starter) as well as the dregs from a logsdon seizoen bretta i drank while brewing. I did my usual saison recipe bumped up with a little more dme (og 1.059) with 2oz of liberty ([email protected], [email protected]) as well as some crushed peppercorns, rosehips, and peel from 1 lemon at flameout . Hopefully i'll see some activity in the morning. I'll give updates. I'm planning on 5 months in primary and 6 weeks in bottles right now, we'll see how things go. Thanks for all the help, as usual i couldn't have pulled this off (hopefully) without you guys helping me along.
 
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Caleb1980

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Quick update on this. I brewed it 1/4 kept in primary till bottled on 6/6. Waited 6 weeks to try one and have had several since. Came out really well. It's dry with plenty of brett and the lemon comes through surprisingly well. It was a great beer over the hot summer days. I plan on doing this or a variation of it at least once a year. I'll hang onto a few bottles as well for to see how it ages. Overall i'm very happy with my first 'wild' beer. Thanks for all the advice i got here

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