Planning Coleman Xtreme 70qt MLT Conversion

[Moonpile]

Here's the cooler that I already have and which I am planning on converting to an MLT for batch sparging: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=4807332

Soon to be new to AG, and have done 2 PMs using grain bags in a 5 gall Rubbermaid cylindrical cooler. We will probably mostly be doing 10 gal batches when brewing AG.

Has anyone else converted the 70qt Coleman Xtreme? Anything I should know?

A S/S braid certainly seems cheaper and easier than building a collection manifold. Is the manifold that much better that it's worth the effort?

For building the collection manifold, any thoughts on CPVC vs Copper?

I noticed pictures of slotted collection manifolds with the slots facing various directions, some up, some down and even one that was facing the side. Any thoughts on slot orientation would be appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[FSR402]

I have that cooler but in the 82qt size.

I also went with the copper manifold. It's 3/4 tubing.

It has slots cut in the bottom side every 1/2 inch that I put in with a hacksaw.
That thing can drain damn fast when I want it to.

It works great for me. I myself would not use the cpvc. I know, I know, it "should" not be a problem but with the money spent and time spent to make the brew and age it and keg/bottle it. I'm not willing to take that chance.

 

[rdwj]

I did the 52 Quart Extreme Cooler. If you plan on doing mostly 10 gal recipes and want to do some big beers, I think the 70 quart is a nice choice. I use a copper manifold in mine and it really works well.

If you do build a manifold, the cuts go down. Also, I'd suggest copper over cpvc. The copper parts you need are pretty cheap and you don't have to solder if you don't want to. In fact, you want to be able to take it apart for cleaning, Mine is about half soldered so that I can clean it easily, but there is no chace of it falling apart when in use.

 

[FSR402]

I did the 52 Quart Extreme Cooler. If you plan on doing mostly 10 gal recipes and want to do some big beers, I think the 70 quart is a nice choice. I use a copper manifold in mine and it really works well.

If you do build a manifold, the cuts go down. Also, I'd suggest copper over cpvc. The copper parts you need are pretty cheap and you don't have to solder if you don't want to. In fact, you want to be able to take it apart for cleaning, Mine is about half soldered so that I can clean it easily, but there is no chace of it falling apart when in use.

Same here. My end peices are sodered but not the 90* parts and the long rails. That way I can get it in and out and take it apart to clean it. I also do 10 gal brews unless it's a beer with an OG of 1.08 and higher, then I do 5 gal. but that's because the boil off on something like that is way bigger then my 15 gal pot.

 

[Moonpile]

So what did you guys do for the "nipple" and valve? How does that attach to the actual manifold?

 

[Funkenjaeger]

The copper parts you need are pretty cheap and you don't have to solder if you don't want to. In fact, you want to be able to take it apart for cleaning, Mine is about half soldered so that I can clean it easily, but there is no chace of it falling apart when in use.

I was pretty surprised when I toured a microbrewery in Minnesota this year, and saw them putting the manifold into the mash tun. It was all copper, somewhere between 1"-2" diameter, and had probably 8-10 pipes running lengthwise. From what I could tell, not one of the fittings on the whole thing was soldered, so it was quite the juggling act, watching the guy put this whole thing together and get it installed in the mash tun.

 

[FSR402]

So what did you guys do for the "nipple" and valve? How does that attach to the actual manifold?

Mine was a big pain in the azz and if I was to do it again I would find a way better way of doing it.
I have piece of pipe that goes thru the wall then there is a rubber washer then a stainless washer that is sodered to a piece that has a hex on it and I also sodered to the part going thru the wall. The outside has a threaded piece sodered on and a stainless washer against the wall a lager dia pipe slipped over the sodered part and another stainless washer then the ball valve is threaded on and pushes against the washers and larger pipe thus pulling the whole thing tight.

If/when I redo this I will go and get some threaded pipe (could not find any at the time I built this) and then just use that instead of the mess I have going. It works the way it is and does not leak so until it does I'll leave it alone.

 

[Moonpile]

Thanks for the help everyone. I'm looking forward to getting to Home Depot this weekend to fit out the parts. I'll post how it goes for me, for posterity.

 

[SPLASTiK]

I have a 70qt Extreme. I go the Denny Conn way of just a mini-keg bung, piece of tubing, braid and valve. Works great and the thing completely drains with no lost wort.

 

[Alamo_Beer]

Here's how I converted my 48qt cooler on the cheap.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=42027

 

[Moonpile]

I have a 70qt Extreme. I go the Denny Conn way of just a mini-keg bung, piece of tubing, braid and valve. Works great and the thing completely drains with no lost wort.

So a vote in favor of S/S braid. But I think I want a nicer valve.

Is it generally true that a S/S braid will work well with batch sparging but not so well with fly sparging? I'm planning on batch sparging at first.

 

[FSR402]

So a vote in favor of S/S braid. But I think I want a nicer valve.

Is it generally true that a S/S braid will work well with batch sparging but not so well with fly sparging? I'm planning on batch sparging at first.

Read the How to Brew site. He talks about how and why to set it up a certen way.

 

[BierMuncher]

...A S/S braid certainly seems cheaper and easier than building a collection manifold. Is the manifold that much better that it's worth the effort?

For building the collection manifold, any thoughts on CPVC vs Copper?

I noticed pictures of slotted collection manifolds with the slots facing various directions, some up, some down and even one that was facing the side. Any thoughts on slot orientation would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Go with a copper manifold. You start doing big batches at 10-gallons each, and you're going to put a lot of weight and strain on an SS braid.

Slots on a copper manifold always point down. This allows the grains to compact down without clogging the slots.

 

[Moonpile]

BierMuncher, yeah, your picture was one I had seen and confused me about the slot orientation. They kind of look like they're on the side. Or do they just go more than half way through?

So S/S braid is good for 5 gal batch sparging, and a manifold is needed for everything else?

 

[BierMuncher]

BierMuncher, yeah, your picture was one I had seen and confused me about the slot orientation. They kind of look like they're on the side. Or do they just go more than half way through?
So S/S braid is good for 5 gal batch sparging, and a manifold is needed for everything else?

They go slightly more than half way through and sometime the pipe gets a bit cock-eyed. (Don’t sweat the joints…just cry fit them together).

As far as SS VS manifold…it’s a raging debate. But I’ve never heard anyone complain that their copper manifold collapsed on them under 26 pounds of grains.

 

[SPLASTiK]

As far as SS VS manifold…it’s a raging debate. But I’ve never heard anyone complain that their copper manifold collapsed on them under 26 pounds of grains.

Can't say I've had any problems draining even using more than that... it clears fast too. But as always, YMMV, and not all braids are created equal.

The valve definately isn't a pretty SS valve but it does the job fine... also it's positioning below the drain hole sicne it's connected to the tubing creates a natural siphon, leaving less behind than if it was connected directly to the cooler. Total cost for tubing, valve, bung, hoseclamps and braid is around $11, cheaper than a SS valve... maybe not brass but I try to avoid brass.

 

[Moonpile]

Ok, I took the day off for other reasons and had time to look at this. How do I actually get the original spigot/plug out? I've tried unscrewing it from the inside with some channel locks, but I'm turning it and it's not retreating.

EDIT: Nevermind. Turns out I had to hold the inside still and unspin the cap portion. Came off real easy.

 

[SuperiorBrew]

Here is mine, I did it with a SS braid option just because I had an extra braided washing machine hose. I ended up using non slotted PVC on the two outsides to avoid channeling of the water down the sides. THe manifold fits tightly inside the coolse so it can't be dislodged while stirring.
The PVC works so great I have never tried the braid.

 

[Moonpile]

Superiorbrew: That looks really nice! Are you fly or batch sparging with that?

 

[SuperiorBrew]

Superiorbrew: That looks really nice! Are you fly or batch sparging with that?

Batch, I just took a pic of the cut side on the manifold layiing on top oF the cooler lid.

I do want to try fly some day.

 

[Chriso]

I use CPVC, and although it was really easy to cut and assemble the first time, it's a pain in the rear.

My biggest problem is after you've stirred for a while, the manifold can start to float up in the cooler from the air still trapped inside the pipe, and will NOT sink back down, no matter how hard you try.

It also comes apart mid-mash somewhat often. I've thought about gluing some of the parts together.

Dead space is another issue because right now, it "floats" about 1" above the bottom of the cooler.

I was thinking about moving to an SS braid, but this thread has made me rethink. What I might do is use a copper "skeleton" with a good portion of the "bottom" removed, and put the copper INSIDE of SS braid. This would prevent collapsed SS braid during heavy mashes.

Thoughts on this hybrid approach?

 

[FSR402]

I use CPVC, and although it was really easy to cut and assemble the first time, it's a pain in the rear.

My biggest problem is after you've stirred for a while, the manifold can start to float up in the cooler from the air still trapped inside the pipe, and will NOT sink back down, no matter how hard you try.

It also comes apart mid-mash somewhat often. I've thought about gluing some of the parts together.

Dead space is another issue because right now, it "floats" about 1" above the bottom of the cooler.

I was thinking about moving to an SS braid, but this thread has made me rethink. What I might do is use a copper "skeleton" with a good portion of the "bottom" removed, and put the copper INSIDE of SS braid. This would prevent collapsed SS braid during heavy mashes.

Thoughts on this hybrid approach?

In trying to get mine to run clear faster then the 3 gallons I have to run thru it first I have gone to putting a strainer bag over my manifold. Works great.

 

[SuperiorBrew]

I cut mine to fot tightly aginst the sides of the cooler, it holds it very tight and it cannot become dislodges, it clears in 1 to 1.5 quarts every time but i have lots of thin slits in the PVC. Also no more than a pint (usually less) left in the bottom if I put a wedge under the opposite end of the cooler.

 

[Moonpile]

After many delays my group and I finally got to use the MLT I've been making. We went with a S/S braid hose that I got from the same source as the fittings. The whole thing worked quite well (81% efficiency on a 23.5 lb grain bill), but the S/S braid hose did get a bit crushed. I'll be building a copper manifold before our next brew day.

 

[bob1852]

what's the diameter of the coleman cooler's outflow? Is it 3/4"?

 

[EvilTOJ]

I've made two Coleman XTreme mashtuns, and both were 1/2" holes once the drain plug was taken out.

 

[Brutus Brewer]

Here is mine, I did it with a SS braid option just because I had an extra braided washing machine hose. I ended up using non slotted PVC on the two outsides to avoid channeling of the water down the sides. THe manifold fits tightly inside the coolse so it can't be dislodged while stirring.
The PVC works so great I have never tried the braid.

I have a 70 at Extreme and am only doing 5 gallon brews. I never seem to get enough work out of the MLT and there always seems to be quite a bit left in the MLT. Have you run into this on any 5 gallon brews?

 

[Moonpile]

I have a 70 at Extreme and am only doing 5 gallon brews. I never seem to get enough work out of the MLT and there always seems to be quite a bit left in the MLT. Have you run into this on any 5 gallon brews?

We've only done one 5 gal brew with it. Otherwise it's been all 10's and even a 15 (partigyle). The one 5 gal brew we did had a fairly hefty grain bill which wasn't a whole lot less than a lighter 10 gal brew.

We do have a piece of 2x4 which we have dubbed "The Chunk o' Funkin' Wood" which we use to prop up the end of the mashtun opposite the drain when it's starting to run down. That helps get the last bit out.

In general though, unless I were only brewing high to very high gravity beers, I wouldn't use a 70qt cooler in a 5 gal system. You want to have the cooler be more than half full, and preferably mostly full all the time, as it will more effeciently hold temperature that way.

 

[bendavanza]

If you're worried about the braid collapsing, check my thread where I shoved coiled ss wire into my braid, and looped it around. It works well but I did damage the braid on my last brew, and will need to fix it. These ideas were borrowed/combined from many places.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/yet-another-cooler-mash-tun-diy-more-ideas-95981/

 

[Moonpile]

More on braid collapse in case bdavanza is on to your actual problem: we have a copper manifold, on which I used an angle grinder to slot the copper. The slots are too big so what we did is shove the s/s braid up inside the center tube. It doesn't collapse and the thing vorlaufs clean in less than a quart.

 

[StoutFan]

Would braid on the outside of the manifold work also?

 

[dataz722]

I've made two Coleman XTreme mashtuns, and both were 1/2" holes once the drain plug was taken out.

Anybody else? Mine is just under 1 inch. Thats where I am having all of my problems. Suggestions?

 

[StoutFan]

What about the bulk gasket material at HD or Lowes? You could get appropriate sized washers and make custom rubber washers out of the gasket material to what ever size is needed. ala SBR Red Rubber Rolls and Sheet for Gaskets

 

[Moonpile]

Would braid on the outside of the manifold work also?

The usual braid is probably too small to get over the 1/2" copper, otherwise I'm sure we would have done that. It sure seems like something we would have tried.

We have a larger diameter s/s braid that we used over a 1/2" copper hop stopper, but it stopped EVERYTHING. Might be better stretched out.

However, the only reason we're using the braid at all is that I made the slots too wide. I don't think we'd use it if we ever got around to making another manifold.

 

[Moonpile]

Anybody else? Mine is just under 1 inch. Thats where I am having all of my problems. Suggestions?

I didn't really measure it and it's at my friends house, where I brew, but it accepted a 1/2" NPT nipple. We used the Weld less fitting for thick walled, "Extreme" type cooler from greatbargain.net, who, btw, provided excellent service.

 

[StoutFan]

The usual braid is probably too small to get over the 1/2" copper, otherwise I'm sure we would have done that. It sure seems like something we would have tried.

We have a larger diameter s/s braid that we used over a 1/2" copper hop stopper, but it stopped EVERYTHING. Might be better stretched out.

However, the only reason we're using the braid at all is that I made the slots too wide. I don't think we'd use it if we ever got around to making another manifold.

How wide is too wide? I have a gap gauge for my gunsmithing, and my hacksaw is about 10 thousandths. Too wide, or just fine?

 

[Moonpile]

How wide is too wide? I have a gap gauge for my gunsmithing, and my hacksaw is about 10 thousandths. Too wide, or just fine?

What I learned is that hacksaws are probably fine, but the thinnest disk I could get for my angle grinder was too wide. Unfortunately I don't have it here to measure.

 

[StoutFan]

Oh, well I guess I know my project for tomorrow. Thanks!