Plan for juicy NEIPA came out dry and dank...why?

[Hwk-I-St8]

I'm confused. This is a 5.5 abv using WYEAST 1318. I dry hopped at tail end of ferm with a 1 oz columbus and 2 oz Galaxy, followed by a second dry hop of 2 oz galaxy on day 6 (5.5 gallon batch).

I mashed at 152 and it finished at 1.018. Initial gravity reading tastings made me worry it would be too sweet. Now, mostly carbed, it's dry and dank.

What happened?

 

[kev211]

What was the rest of your recipe? Columbus has very dank flavors (I find) so that could be part of the "problem"

 

[Weezy]

Its the Galaxy making it dank and maybe water making it dry (or grain bill). Galaxy is very dank and you used a lot of it. You see a lot of neipa recipes using it but it should be used sparingly to accent other fruity hops.

He confident are you in the actual mash temp?

 

[elbinwyp]

Any water adjustments?

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

To answer the questions:

First, the recipe:
Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: American IPA
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 6.5 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.058
Efficiency: 70% (brew house)


STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.068
Final Gravity: 1.018
ABV (standard): 6.65%
IBU (tinseth): 55.5
SRM (morey): 6.65

FERMENTABLES:
10 lb - American - Pale 2-Row (67.8%)
1 lb - Flaked Oats (6.8%)
0.75 lb - American - Carapils (Dextrine Malt) (5.1%)
0.5 lb - American - Caramel / Crystal 40L (3.4%)
0.5 lb - Flaked Wheat (3.4%)
2 lb - United Kingdom - Golden Promise (13.6%)

HOPS:
0.5 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: First Wort, IBU: 14.65
2 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Whirlpool for 20 min at 170 °F, IBU: 40.85
2 oz - Galaxy, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.25, Use: Dry Hop for 3 days
1 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Dry Hop for 3 days
2 oz - Galaxy, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.25, Use: Dry Hop for 6 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Sparge, Temp: 152 F, Time: 60 min, Batch sparge
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.25 qt/lb

YEAST:
Wyeast - London Ale III 1318
Starter: Yes
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 73%
Flocculation: High
Optimum Temp: 64 - 74 F
Fermentation Temp: 64 F
Pitch Rate: 0.5 (M cells / ml / deg P)


NOTE THAT THE OG WAS MUCH LOWER THAN THE RECIPE DUE TO MY BRAIN FART ON STRIKE AND SPARGE QUANTITIES. OG was 1.060


I started with RO water and a friend who's an experience all grain brewer did the water additions. I don't know exactly what he added, but he said it should give me a nice mouthfeel. He added sodium and calcium...but don't know the exact PPM....I texted him to ask.

I am super confident in the mash temp. We mashed in a cooler and it hit spot on and held to within a degree.

Maybe I misunderstood Galaxy...I expected it to be more juicy with a slight dankness from the columbus.

My plan is to follow the same recipe with different hops for my next batch.

Keep in mind...the beer is very good, just different from what I expected. I'll have no problem finishing off this keg and I may brew this exact recipe again. I'd be going to the tap for another now but work tomorrow would suffer.

 

[trav77]

It's the Columbus making it dank. Not really a typical "juicy" hop. It will give you more of a west coast character.

 

[PlexVector]

To answer the questions:

First, the recipe:
Brew Method: All Grain
Style Name: American IPA
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 6.5 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.058
Efficiency: 70% (brew house)


STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.068
Final Gravity: 1.018
ABV (standard): 6.65%
IBU (tinseth): 55.5
SRM (morey): 6.65

FERMENTABLES:
10 lb - American - Pale 2-Row (67.8%)
1 lb - Flaked Oats (6.8%)
0.75 lb - American - Carapils (Dextrine Malt) (5.1%)
0.5 lb - American - Caramel / Crystal 40L (3.4%)
0.5 lb - Flaked Wheat (3.4%)
2 lb - United Kingdom - Golden Promise (13.6%)

HOPS:
0.5 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: First Wort, IBU: 14.65
2 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Whirlpool for 20 min at 170 °F, IBU: 40.85
2 oz - Galaxy, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.25, Use: Dry Hop for 3 days
1 oz - Columbus, Type: Pellet, AA: 15, Use: Dry Hop for 3 days
2 oz - Galaxy, Type: Pellet, AA: 14.25, Use: Dry Hop for 6 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Sparge, Temp: 152 F, Time: 60 min, Batch sparge
Starting Mash Thickness: 1.25 qt/lb

YEAST:
Wyeast - London Ale III 1318
Starter: Yes
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 73%
Flocculation: High
Optimum Temp: 64 - 74 F
Fermentation Temp: 64 F
Pitch Rate: 0.5 (M cells / ml / deg P)


NOTE THAT THE OG WAS MUCH LOWER THAN THE RECIPE DUE TO MY BRAIN FART ON STRIKE AND SPARGE QUANTITIES. OG was 1.060


I started with RO water and a friend who's an experience all grain brewer did the water additions. I don't know exactly what he added, but he said it should give me a nice mouthfeel. He added sodium and calcium...but don't know the exact PPM....I texted him to ask.

I am super confident in the mash temp. We mashed in a cooler and it hit spot on and held to within a degree.

Maybe I misunderstood Galaxy...I expected it to be more juicy with a slight dankness from the columbus.

My plan is to follow the same recipe with different hops for my next batch.

Keep in mind...the beer is very good, just different from what I expected. I'll have no problem finishing off this keg and I may brew this exact recipe again. I'd be going to the tap for another now but work tomorrow would suffer.

Substitute Mosaic, Citra, El Dorado, instead of columbus and Galaxy and you should be dead on.
EDIT: I would not use any crystal, but for NEIPA you need your water to be at least 2:1 Cloride:Sulfate if not more on the chloride.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Substitute Mosaic, Citra, El Dorado, and Citra instead of columbus and Galaxy and you should be dead on.

Ha! My plan for the next one (same grain bill and yeast ) was Mosaic El Dorado and Citra! I'll probably use some of my remaining columbus for the FWH addition.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Update: as the beer has carbed and conditioned a bit this week, it's gotten much better. Not sure if it's just hops dropping out of suspension or what (didn't cold crash), but it's getting juicier as time goes on. I had a couple glasses last night and it really good. Posted a pic to the local FB beer group last night and made a few people jealous I think.

FYI - the water profile was
100 ppm cacl
50 ppm so4
15 ppm mg
5 ppm na

(per my friend who managed the water for me)

 

[myntz]

I recently brewed a very similar beer except used Citra, Mosaic, and Exp Grapefruit. (1.064-1.015)

Used about 14oz total and it still came out with a "dry" mouthfeel. I'm taking a hard look at my water profile as everything else would suggest that this would have been a juicy mess.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I recently brewed a very similar beer except used Citra, Mosaic, and Exp Grapefruit. (1.064-1.015)

Used about 14oz total and it still came out with a "dry" mouthfeel. I'm taking a hard look at my water profile as everything else would suggest that this would have been a juicy mess.

Let me know what you find. I thought the profile my friend set up was supposed to yield a nicer mouthfeel and softer hop experience. At least that's what I've been reading....

 

[chudsonvt]

Update: as the beer has carbed and conditioned a bit this week, it's gotten much better. Not sure if it's just hops dropping out of suspension or what (didn't cold crash), but it's getting juicier as time goes on. I had a couple glasses last night and it really good. Posted a pic to the local FB beer group last night and made a few people jealous I think.

Mine usually are a little harsh and dry after I first keg and carb but mellow out very nicely within a few days to a week. I never trust my first glass.
However, I also agree with others on the the hop front. I have never used Galaxy but I use Columbus all the time. I have been reserving it more for my 60 minute addition or for other styles. It has a bit of earthy/spice flavor and aroma which I think can screw up an NEIPA if used in large quantities. I like Citra, Centennial and Comet for the late additions and dry hopping. I am also going to try a batch with Mosaic soon. My NEIPA now on tap was equal parts Citra and Centennial. The one previous had the Comet as well. Both came out great. I think you just need to play with the hops a bit and you'll get there.

 

[Mainer]

I did a DIPA a while back with Columbus, Simcoe, Mosaic, and Amarillo. It likewise started really dank, muddy, and weedy, but mellowed substantially into some nice bright citrus over time. RDWHAHB.

 

[Wingnutt73]

I think it's your hops. I brewed something similar to this and used Citra and Galaxy and it came out perfect. That being said these types of beers fall off pretty quick too. In my case the creamy mouth feel kinda fell off and it's not as "juicy" as it was 2 weeks after fermentation. I let it sit about a week longer than I should have. How Old is yours?

 

[elburrogrande]

Drink fresh and swirl keg every 3 or so days to maintain creamy mouthfeel and juicy character. I brewed one on 3/13 that Ill be kegging and serving tomorrow just to give an idea. OG 1.066 expected FG 1.011

 

[myntz]

Mine usually are a little harsh and dry after I first keg and carb but mellow out very nicely within a few days to a week. I never trust my first glass.

I keep telling myself this as well, and usually seems to be the case with other styles of beer. I've heard week 2-3 in the keg is when these types of beers hit full stride.

 

[kristiismean]

Mine are juicy, and then tend to clean up a little in the keg (never clear) and loses just a little bit of the "in your face" type of ne ipa you would expect to get.

I actually bottled this last batch, it's flying out of my house. i am a big fan of the citra/galaxy/amarillo mix.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I think it's your hops. I brewed something similar to this and used Citra and Galaxy and it came out perfect. That being said these types of beers fall off pretty quick too. In my case the creamy mouth feel kinda fell off and it's not as "juicy" as it was 2 weeks after fermentation. I let it sit about a week longer than I should have. How Old is yours?

I brewed on 3/4, kegged on 3/18. My original post was on the 21st. My update, on the 23rd, is that it really is coming into it's own now. I'm sending a growler to my usual share group tonight (I'm brewing, can't go). I'll be curious to get their feedback.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I keep telling myself this as well, and usually seems to be the case with other styles of beer. I've heard week 2-3 in the keg is when these types of beers hit full stride.

I'm not sure it'll last that long. There's only 5 gallons and every friend I know wants in on it after seeing the pictures.

 

[butterblum]

Did you ever figure out what was causing the dry mouthfeel?