Pitching rate/Starter problem

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rjwhite41

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I went to Mr. Malty to get my starter size for a Maibock I was going to brew on Monday. I don't have a stir plate and I use intermittent shaking. The estimated OG is 1.067 and Wyeast 2308 (Munich Lager) yeast that I picked up is date Nov. 29. Anyway, I went to see how much I need and slid the bar all the way to the right for larger starter less packs and says I need 2 packs in a 6 quart starter for 532 billion cells. I have no way to get another pack (HBS quite a ways away and I work all week) and I smacked it before I came to work to make sure it is viable. Should I step it up? Should I make a larger starter?

If you think I should step it up, what size steps should I use and how long will it take me?

If you think I should make a larger starter, how big do you think it should be?

Thanks in advance for your help.
 

MachineShopBrewing

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You are better off just making a starter and brewing a smaller batch of lower gravity beer to grow the yeast and then brew the maibock and pitch your washed yeast from the first beer in your position. I usually start with two packs of yeast in a 2000ml starter on a stir plate for 1.050 lagers.

Try a 3 gal batch of a 1.045 pilsner or something to grow enough yeast for that maibock.
 

Gregscsu

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You will want to step it up ar brew a smaller batch like MachineShopBrewing wrote.

Either way, to achieve the best results you will need to postpone your Maibock brew date.
 

indigi

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Seconding what MSB and Gregscsu said. Patience is a virtue.



(I never want to hear that either. Sometimes we just need to screw a couple brews up before we learn.)
 
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rjwhite41

rjwhite41

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I've been brewing a long time, I know patience is a virtue. I don't have the ingredients to make another beer unless it is with DME. I can't imagine that I will want to drink it. If I back my batch size down to 5 gallons (from 5.75 gallons) then it says I need a 10 quart starter. So does anyone think a 3 gallon starter is a good idea (other than being a waste of beer)?
 
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rjwhite41

rjwhite41

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Thank you all (especially MachineShopBrewing). I know you're right. I guess I was just hoping someone would say go for it.
 

bobz

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Mr Malty is always under pitching. Do your own cell math. 1billion cells per liter per degree Plato for ales - 1.5 billion for lagers. Split your starter into separate vessels and add more wort. As gravity increases cells do no multiply in a linear fashion estimate the amount of cells by the amount of slurry. See Palmer s how to brew or Chris White's Yeast book. (White Labs Chris White) ---------bobz
 
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rjwhite41

rjwhite41

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If I figure it on my own the difference is only 16 billion cells (less than 3%). So maybe it's slightly less but nothing too major. I've read How to Brew but I have not read Chris White's Yeast Book (which oddly enough is the same guy who tells people one vial is good for most beers-now that's not even close). Also, wasn't that book written with Jamil Zainasheff (Mr. Malty)? However, I am very interested in how splitting my starter into two separate vessels increases the cell counts. Do you have any scientific reading related to that?
 

bobz

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rjwight, The yeast book explains that the more yeast in-solution the less cell growth you will get. I would chill what you have to flocculate pour off the supernatant split add more starter. Do the same before pitching. Do not pitch the starter solution only the slurry. Bad things can happen. Brew a 40 point beer not a 25.

Good beer is no accident - but accidents can happen!

-----bobz

PS - Chris White explains that they under pitch but close is good enough for Home Brewers
 
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