Pine in beer?

[HeyLewis]

I've been brewing a beer I call my Camp Fire Porter for a while now for an annual camping trip I go on with the idea to embody everything you think of when you think about camping in one beer. Thinking about what aromas are around a campsite, I came up with a porter that had big chocolate notes (inspired by smores), lightly smoked malt (camp fire) and a lot of earthy/piney hops to simulate the forest (willemette and northern brewer). What I love about this is when you smell the brew after the hops, you actually smell camping in the forest, one of my favourite brews to make and have around the fire. I can post the recipe when I dig it out if there's interest.

But then I thought, what if I actually use real pine instead of hops that just have a piney note to them?

I've seen a few recipes on here that give vague instructions, but no good information on how much to add and when. Is it better to put it in the boil with the hops or in the secondary at the end? I dont want to overpower the beer with it, just add enough to get people curious about that different taste in the backround. Has anybody experimented with using pine in beer?

Edit: Recipe
--------------------------
Boil Size: 6.52 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.98 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 4.60 gal
Estimated OG: 1.069 SG
Estimated Color: 34.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 59.9 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 82.8 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes
Estimated ABV: 7.5%

Ingredients:
------------
Amt
6.5 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM)
3.5 lbs Smoked Malt (9.0 SRM)
2 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM)
1 lbs Rye Malt (4.7 SRM)
12.0 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM)

0.75 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - First Wort 60.0 min
0.40 oz Northern Brewer [8.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min
0.40 oz Willamette [5.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min
0.40 oz Northern Brewer [8.50 %] - Boil 30.0 min
0.40 oz Northern Brewer [8.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min
0.40 oz Willamette [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min

1.0 pkg Thames Valley Ale (Wyeast Labs #1275)

Mash at 154 for 60 min

 

[wahmbush]

Never tried it, but interested in your recipe.

 

[tonyscha]

I just seen this the other night on tv (http://beergeeks.tv/episode-guide/season-1/episode-3/) where they use juniper branches and they basically steeped the branches. They had a bundle of them for a large batch, not sure how to scale it. He hinted it had a very strong "tree" taste.

Thought just came to me, maybe get some pine needles, and do a 1 gallon "tea" with pine needles and see how strong it is, and scale to 5 gallons when you are ready to brew.

 

[Wingnutt73]

^
That was going to be my suggestion was to add Juniper or a pine needle tea. I know Sammy Adams uses Juniper in one of their Christmas brews, it has a very nice piney woodsy taste to it. Also very interested in the recipe.

 

[phug]

brewingtv also had an episode that featured a juniper based nordic beer.

I think they steeped them or boiled them, but also used the branches as the bottom layer in the lauter tun on top of the false bottom.

 

[cluckk]

But then I thought, what if I actually use real pine instead of hops that just have a piney note to them?

I would suppose the main problem is the same reason you don't smoke meat over a pine fire--turpentine (which is distilled from pine resin). If you smoke meat with pine it tastes like it is covered by paint thinner. A beer smelling like and tasting like pine is one thing. A beer tasting like turpentine is a whole other thing.

 

[chickypad]

For SF beer week last year Drake's did a tree beer where they put grand fir branches in the boil. It was yummy, and the aroma/taste really came through. I think some pine species can have toxins?

Edit: sorry that site won't let me direct link - it's on the full pint blog, google Drake's tree beer

 

[porterpounder]

Don't forget spruce. The Spring tips are starting to come out. For a pronounced aroma and flavor fill a quart jar with tips and add them at 60 mins to get a nice citrusy piney character (5-6 gallon batch). I think cutting it to half of 1/4 jar would give a nice hint without pushing it to the forefront. I've always gone by volume rather that weight after reading some article a while back and the consistency has been excellent.

 

[broadbill]

I would suppose the main problem is the same reason you don't smoke meat over a pine fire--turpentine (which is distilled from pine resin). If you smoke meat with pine it tastes like it is covered by paint thinner. A beer smelling like and tasting like pine is one thing. A beer tasting like turpentine is a whole other thing.

there is also a greek wine called retsina....white wine with pine resin it. Lets say its an acquired taste.

I think if you try this be sure not to go over the top with the flavoring.

 

[Karkinos]

Spruce has been used in brewing for hundreds of years. Go out this spring/early summer and cut some fresh spruce tips or simply pick up a spruce extract. I'm not entirely sure when to add it. I believe it's near the end of the boil or while chilling hit it at about 180 degrees and let them steep for 10 minutes or so. It could also be a secondary addition--like a dry hop. Anyway, it works well. Here's a brewery that uses Spruce: www.blackhuskybrewing.com

 

[Rivenin]

brewingtv also had an episode that featured a juniper based nordic beer.

I think they steeped them or boiled them, but also used the branches as the bottom layer in the lauter tun on top of the false bottom.

Look up SATHI or however the eff you spell it.... just have access to juniper!

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Spruce tips are really awesome. Get the fresh little tips right in the spring. Yum. Also juniper works pretty well, if you don't get too carried away. If you are in the desert country then mesquite can be fun to play with.

 

[HeyLewis]

Hmm, sounds like spruce is the way to go. I'll try a few experiments and see how it goes and let you guys know. The recipe went something like this:

5 Gal batch

6lbs - Vienna
2lb 12oz - Smoked malt (light smoked)
2lbs - Crystal 120L
1lb - Rye malt
12oz - Chocolate malt

.5oz - Simcoe - First Wort
.4oz - Northern Brewer - 60
.4oz - Willamette - 60
.4oz - Northern Brewer - 30
.4oz - Northern Brewer - 5
.4oz - Willamette - 5

Mash @ 154 - 60 min

Thames Valley yeast (Wyeast #1275)

OG - 1.062
FG - 10.11
Est ABV - 6.7%
IBU - 51.9
Est Colour - 34.2 SRM

 

[krackin]

Just remember that pine oil is toxic. In fact pine forests, although great smelling, are major polluters, no problem, just fact. All the same, I'd rather me in my little part of the Pine Barrens than any other place that I've been.

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Just remember that pine oil is toxic. In fact pine forests, although great smelling, are major polluters, no problem, just fact. All the same, I'd rather me in my little part of the Pine Barrens than any other place that I've been.

This might be off topic, but care to explain how pine forests are major polluters?

 

[krackin]

This might be off topic, but care to explain how pine forests are major polluters?

You have the internet at your disposal. Use it, don't expect me to do your homework.