Pilsner with ale yeast, or...

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EricaM

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Edit: Thanks for your replies everyone. This is plenty of information. I'll think about it and see what I do.

My sister and brother in law like pilsner. They have been trying to make one from kits, but they are just beginning to make beer and they ferment at hot temps and it always comes out tasting like fruit punch, so I was thinking I'd give one a try and surprise them with it.

I have two options:
I can get a pilsner kit and use an ale yeast at basement temps, which usually is arount 70 F or lower, but the heat goes up when we put a fire on, or my elderly relatives go down there and turn up the heater. What yeast would you recommend, if I go this route?

Use a lager yeast and put the fermenter out in my unheated porch, which is slightly warmer than outside temps. Yesterday evening the air temp was about 45F out there, but it would get colder at night, below freezing, and possibly warmer some days.

One more thing to consider is that I would like to have this in bottles within 3 weeks, since I may be be going to drive to their house around that time.

I"m leaning toward ale yeast. Advice?
 
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Genuine

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You can actually use SafLager 34/70 and get great results....and the temp range on the packet also specifies it can perform in the 60's. I've done it many times with great results.
 
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EricaM

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You can actually use SafLager 34/70 and get great results....and the temp range on the packet also specifies it can perform in the 60's. I've done it many times with great results.
My concern is that it will go above that temp sometimes, if I keep it in the basement. Maybe I can find a spot farther from the heat source.
Thanks for your reply.
 
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EricaM

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No, not ready to serve, just ready to go in bottles. It can carbonate in bottles at her house. She has a cold room, but it's too difficult for her to get a fermenter into the small space. She could put bottles there, though, if necessary.
 

Miraculix

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Advice? Buy a case of your sister’s favorite Pils to take to her when you visit.

To brew, ferment, bottle, and condition any beer, and have it ready to serve in 3 weeks, you should have started at least a week ago.
Exactly.

Even if you manage to get it carbonated within the short time frame, it will taste much better three weeks to one month later.

Regarding the yeast, as suggested 3470 should work. The first two or three days are the days were lower temperature has the strongest effect, afterwards it's not so crucial anymore.

You could also use mangrove Jack California lager, which is supposed to be fermented at room temperature and tastes just like a lager.

But use twice as much yeast as you normally would with that one, otherwise fermentation might get really really slow at the end.
 
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You could use a Kveik yeast which ferments clean at high temperatures, and is a very fast fermenter. Not exactly Pilsner, but you shouldn't get any of those bubblegum esters.
 

Miraculix

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You could use a Kveik yeast which ferments clean at high temperatures, and is a very fast fermenter. Not exactly Pilsner, but you shouldn't get any of those bubblegum esters.
If so, lutra would be my choice. I just tried it in a similar beer and the result is very clean when fermented at room temperature. However, it is a bit tart, compared to a real lager yeast.
 

NewJersey

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Everyone is fermenting lagers warm these days, not doing diacetyl rests, not/barely lagering...
I have personally found that going old school on lagers actually makes a difference and produces the best pilsner.
Proper amount of yeast, controlled lower temp fermentation, make sure it finishes, good diacetyl rest at controlled higher temperature, and a good cold crash followed by a longer lagering period. Of course closed transfers to kegs too.
The short cuts will make shortcut beer.
 
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dmtaylor

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I think the best ale yeasts for warm fermented lagers are Wyeast 1007 and Fermentis S-189. Both very clean, no esters, and good consistent performers, at any temperature. Some people love W-34/70 which is pretty good too but I don't have as much experience with that one.
 

Dgallo

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The longer I brew the more of a purist I’ve become. I can’t personally call something a lager if i didn’t ferment it with lager yeast and at lager ferm temps. To each their own though.

What you are looking for is the warm fermented Lager thread by @applescrap . That will have the most and most current anecdotal evidence on it
 

dmtaylor

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The longer I brew the more of a purist I’ve become. I can’t personally call something a lager if i didn’t ferment it with lager yeast and at lager ferm temps. To each their own though.

What you are looking for is the warm fermented Lager thread by @applescrap . That will have the most and most current anecdotal evidence on it
Holy crap, only 1532 posts to read through on that one. o_O

 

Dgallo

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Holy crap, only 1532 posts to read through on that one. o_O

People are serious about the pseudo lager
 

Alex4mula

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I think the best ale yeasts for warm fermented lagers are Wyeast 1007 and Fermentis S-189. Both very clean, no esters, and good consistent performers, at any temperature. Some people love W-34/70 which is pretty good too but I don't have as much experience with that one.
I made my first Pilsner with Wyeast 1007 and came out fantastic.
 

Beermeister32

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Beer made with ale yeast is an ale.

Beer made with lager yeast is a lager.

Either ales or lagers may be lagered - stored, aged, or conditioned cold over a period of time.

........ So, you are looking to make a fast light ale with Pilsner-like characteristics which will be difficult to do. Maybe the Centennial Blond recipe might fit the bill. Maybe even try the Kviek yeast, if available. I’ve used it before and it’s the fastest yeast I’ve ever used. You don’t have much time though..! Get going!
 
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Miraculix

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Beer made with ale yeast is an ale.

Beer made with lager yeast is a lager.

Either ales or lagers may be lagered - stored, aged, or conditioned cold over a period of time.

........ So, you are looking to make a fast light ale with Pilsner-like characteristics which will be difficult to do. Maybe the Centennial Blond recipe might fit the bill. Maybe even try the Kviek yeast, if available. I’ve used it before and it’s the fastest yeast I’ve ever used. You don’t have much time though..! Get going!
If it would be just that simple...
 

Spartan1979

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Beer made with ale yeast is an ale.

Beer made with lager yeast is a lager.

Either ales or lagers may be lagered - stored, aged, or conditioned cold over a period of time.

........ So, you are looking to make a fast light ale with Pilsner-like characteristics which will be difficult to do. Maybe the Centennial Blond recipe might fit the bill. Maybe even try the Kviek yeast, if available. I’ve used it before and it’s the fastest yeast I’ve ever used. You don’t have much time though..! Get going!
I've tasted pseudo lagers made with Kviek yeast. While I don't think they're as good as lagers made with proper lager yeast fermented at proper temperatures, they are a reasonable alternative if you can't do a real lager.
 

BrewZer

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Try Wyeast 2112. I've used it twice now and I like the profile it gave to both a light APA and a marzen-style ale. It was very well behaved both times, and was down to FG inside a week, and since you're going to bottle condition anyway, should finish up nicely in your sister's cold room.
 
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EricaM

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I've tasted pseudo lagers made with Kviek yeast. While I don't think they're as good as lagers made with proper lager yeast fermented at proper temperatures, they are a reasonable alternative if you can't do a real lager.
Well, it's supposed to be above zero outside all this week and I have an unheated porch, so I went ahead and got a lager kit. Will see how it goes. I'll have to do a lot of temp checking. I put it out there last night and this morning the wort was 4C, so I brought it in. Currently it's around 9C and I've got some airlock movement. Outside temp is supposed to go above zero this afternoon, so I"ll put it back outside soon.

My talking about trying lager got my sister to try again as well and she's figured out how to get it into her cold room, so maybe we'll both have a good batch.
 

NewJersey

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Well, it's supposed to be above zero outside all this week and I have an unheated porch, so I went ahead and got a lager kit. Will see how it goes. I'll have to do a lot of temp checking. I put it out there last night and this morning the wort was 4C, so I brought it in. Currently it's around 9C and I've got some airlock movement. Outside temp is supposed to go above zero this afternoon, so I"ll put it back outside soon.

My talking about trying lager got my sister to try again as well and she's figured out how to get it into her cold room, so maybe we'll both have a good batch.
What yeast are you using?
 
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EricaM

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whatever came with the cooper's european lager kit. It doesn't say on the label, what yeast it is. I'd like to know.
 
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EricaM

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I've tasted pseudo lagers made with Kviek yeast. While I don't think they're as good as lagers made with proper lager yeast fermented at proper temperatures, they are a reasonable alternative if you can't do a real lager.
Thanks for this suggestion. I'm limited in the kinds of yeast I can get locally and not willing to pay big shipping for a single package of yeast. My local place has a couple kinds of kveik, but the descriptions all say it's very fruity. In fact, I'm using voss in an neipa that I have on right now and it smells like pineapple and tastes like oranges, (I guess some of that is probably the hops), even though the room temp has been relatively low (less than 20C) for most of the ferm time. I did move it over by a hot fire for an afternoon to try to get more fruit out of it.

Someone suggested lutra for a clean ale, but I can't get that around here.
 
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