Pilsner Urquell

[paithian]

So I had this for the first time yesterday and it was my first real pils can anyone tell me some good craft examples that I can get in southeast mi

 

[amandabab]

there aren't any other examples.

 

[paithian]

Nobody makes a pils or is Urquell just the best example cuz I thought it was awesome

 

[Waynep005]

Gordon Biersch makes a good pilsner but I doubt it is availiable in Michigan but pick up some if you can.

 

[BigEd]

Nobody makes a pils or is Urquell just the best example cuz I thought it was awesome

There are others but Urquell is the best except for the possibility of some obscure small Czech beers that aren't exported. The previously mentioned Gordon Biersch, along with Victory and Stoudt's probably make some of the better US versions although those are more German than Czech. I had a discussion recently with some of the employees of a local spot that always has Urquell on tap. They said they wanted to put something better on tap and I told them let me know when you find it. There are some good imported German pils available and if you can find a bar that has fresh stuff on tap I'm sure you would enjoy them (Spaten, Ayinger, Weihenstephan are the most commonly found). They're all good but they are obviously in the German style, less complex, drier and less hoppy than Urquell. Enjoy your quest.

 

[Yooper]

What they said! Pilsner Urquell is THE example of Bohemian pilsner, although the original Budweiser (not Bud/Bud Light, but the original Budweiser Budvar called Czechvar in the US) is great if you can find it.

You can make a nice BoPils if you can control fermentation temperatures and lager the beer. It's probably easier to make a good BoPils than to find one other than fresh Urquell.

 

[paithian]

Oh I am good with buying Urquell I just love the "research" part of this hobby so was just looking for options

 

[Yooper]

Oh I am good with buying Urquell I just love the "research" part of this hobby so was just looking for options

There are some other pilsners, like BigEd mentioned and they are very good. But they are more of the German style pilsners and not Bohemian pilsner. They are close in many ways, but not the same. If you want to try a decent German pilsner, I've liked Victory Prima Pils (I think that's what it is called). It's a decent pilsner in the German style, and I enjoyed it.

 

[trumpetbeard]

After spending some time in the Czech Republic I feel that pilsners are perhaps the most underrated style of beer in America. If you can ever find Kozel, Bernard (i've seen the celebration lager in eastern Kansas), Svijany (by far my favorite, but I've never seen it in the states. the 11, 12 and 13 degree beers are simply amazing), Master (brewed in association with Urquell), or even Gambrinus (if Urquell is the Czech MGD, Gambrinus would be the Czech bud [or would Budvar? poor analogy but you get the point]), jump on that opportunity. Staropramen is far more available in the states and is also a solid representative of the style. I don't know how available any of these would be in SE MI. The ones I've had in the states didn't travel well, but it'll definitely give you a solid introduction to the style.

I have to agree that Urquell is the BoPils standard, and certainly the most available in the states, but it is a really rich and far more varied style category than I think most are aware.

 

[befus]

My favorite pils by far. I some some thread on here talking about how bad Urquell was, and I found it funny really. I lived in Europe for over two years and it was by far my favorite while there. The only thing close was a German local lager called Bavaria Brau out of Aschaffenberg which is no more .

 

[Frankiesurf]

Has nobody had a Staropramen? That is THE original pilsner. I had it while in Europe but have found it on a very rare occasion here in the states.

 

[BetterSense]

So, what does it take to clone Pilsner Urquell? I just got a keezmentation chamber, so I can now brew lagers. I have a feeling that the water is going to be important.

 

[trumpetbeard]

I have a feeling that the water is going to be important.

I don't have it in front of me, but in Papazian's the homebrewer's companion he cites soft water as essential to properly executing a Pilsner. Can't comment from experience, however.

 

[houndsbreath]

I'm surprise the Pils from Krombacher hasn't been mentioned yet. It's fairly widely available (I've seen it bottled and on tap), is brewed in Germany and I'd say it rivals Pilsner Urquell...

 

[Yooper]

So, what does it take to clone Pilsner Urquell? I just got a keezmentation chamber, so I can now brew lagers. I have a feeling that the water is going to be important.

Yep- 100% RO water.

A double decoction, with 100% pilsner malt (a little carapils, like less than 5% is ok).

100% Czech saaz hops, bittered to 40 IBUs and with additions at 10 minutes and 0 minutes. A good quality yeast (I like WLP802, the Czech Budvar strain) with a humungous starter, fermented at 50 degrees and then lagered for 6-7 weeks near freezing.

I'm sure that there are other ways, like without a decoction or with using extract, but that is the only way I know of for sure that will give you a knock-your-socks-off Bohemian pilsner.

I'm sure our recipe database would have other pilsner recipes that might be more suited to your system/set up as well.

 

[BigEd]

Has nobody had a Staropramen? That is THE original pilsner. I had it while in Europe but have found it on a very rare occasion here in the states.

Never been to Europe so I have only had it here. It's good, but IMO somewhat less complex and just a little bland compared to PU.

 

[BigEd]

Yep- 100% RO water.

A double decoction, with 100% pilsner malt (a little carapils, like less than 5% is ok).

100% Czech saaz hops, bittered to 40 IBUs and with additions at 10 minutes and 0 minutes. A good quality yeast (I like WLP802, the Czech Budvar strain) with a humungous starter, fermented at 50 degrees and then lagered for 6-7 weeks near freezing.

I'm sure that there are other ways, like without a decoction or with using extract, but that is the only way I know of for sure that will give you a knock-your-socks-off Bohemian pilsner.

I'm sure our recipe database would have other pilsner recipes that might be more suited to your system/set up as well.

Agree on the decoction although there are many who will say it's a waste of time. I think a decoction adds nuances and complexity to the beer that cannot be obtained any other way. I don't agree on the WLP802 yeast, however. There's nothing wrong with it but to me one of the things that sets PU apart from similar brews is the yeast strain. I've used the WLP802 and it is very good but just somewhat "generic" in its profile compared to the PU strains. YMMV. WLP800 is White Lab's PU strain and even better IMO is the Wyeast 2278 or 2001. Unless you have very soft water to begin with RO is a good way to start but I would not use RO without a small addition of Calcium Chloride to get the Ca+ up to 50-75ppm. The little bit of Calcium will help the mash reactions do their thing without worry and the touch of Chloride will give a nice subtle support to the flavor and body of the beer.

 

[pjj2ba]

I agree on the yeast strain. I cut my water half with distilled. A decoction is not needed. I haven't used one for my BoPils and it has managed a 1st place last year in the PU master homebrew competition in NYC, and it was no fluke as it just took 2nd place in this year's competition.

pilsner urquell clone recipe

The recipe is a bit untraditional, but it works with my system. This winter I'm going to try a traditional version with 100% pils malt, a triple decoction, and just Saaz hops and see what I get. I'm also going to brew the standard recipe with my normally treated tap water and see what happens.

Plus I agree with the others, there is no other commercial beer like it. It's bitterness sets it apart from the other Czech pilsners. Perhaps the most comparable, in terms of bitterness would be Jever, from Germany

 

[pjj2ba]

Has nobody had a Staropramen? That is THE original pilsner. I had it while in Europe but have found it on a very rare occasion here in the states.

A beer store in any decent sized town should have this. I just had some this weekend in NYC and have found it in Maryland too. And while it is a pilsner, it most certainly NOT the original one. That honor goes to Pilsner Urquell, which translates as the Original Pilsner, named after the the town of Pilzen where it was first brewed (Oct 5th 1842, for those who are curious)

 

[BetterSense]

Yep- 100% RO water.

A double decoction, with 100% pilsner malt (a little carapils, like less than 5% is ok).

100% Czech saaz hops, bittered to 40 IBUs and with additions at 10 minutes and 0 minutes. A good quality yeast (I like WLP802, the Czech Budvar strain) with a humungous starter, fermented at 50 degrees and then lagered for 6-7 weeks near freezing.

starting/ending gravity?

 

[Grippe]

Because I lived in Prague for a few years....

Krusovice (unfiltered, you can only have this at a few places and at the pivovar in Krusovice proper)
Dudak
Dalesicke

 

[StMarcos]

Yep- 100% RO water.

A double decoction, with 100% pilsner malt (a little carapils, like less than 5% is ok).

100% Czech saaz hops, bittered to 40 IBUs and with additions at 10 minutes and 0 minutes. A good quality yeast (I like WLP802, the Czech Budvar strain) with a humungous starter, fermented at 50 degrees and then lagered for 6-7 weeks near freezing.

I'm sure that there are other ways, like without a decoction or with using extract, but that is the only way I know of for sure that will give you a knock-your-socks-off Bohemian pilsner.

I'm sure our recipe database would have other pilsner recipes that might be more suited to your system/set up as well.

That's going to depend on the profile of yer ro water. Ro only removes so much. I feel like you will need some Ca. I tried a helles with water that started at 10ppm Ca, then went through ro, bringing it likely to 0, and the beer had a haze that never left, and it tasted starchy and unpleasant. The pH was near enough to 5.5 (room temp) during the mash.

Hard water will leave some minerals in the ro output that could contribute to the beer being superior to a distilled-ish water mash. Just my observations.