pilsner malt for ales

[piteko]

Hi everybody,
since I have been to a malthouse with a friend of mine that is going to grow some barley, we bought 50kg (nearly 110 lbs) of pilsner malt to test it. I already had a bohemian pilners and I plan to make a belgian triple too to use a part of it.

Now the question is: what can I add to the mash along with the pilsner to obtain a flavour profile near to a pale malt (english, german, belgian and US) in order to use it with other recipes?

My first try has been:
pils 60%
vienna 33%
caramunich II 7%
plus some crystal to make an IPA, but it's still conditioning, so I cannot say how it came.

Suggestions, ideas and comments really appreciated
Cheers
Piteko

 

[Bob]

Well, since perceptible flavors in the vast majority of ales come from specialty grains, I don't think it'll make much of a difference. The specialty grains flavors - Vienna, CaraMunich in the case of your IPA - will completely mask the very subtle flavors of Pils malt so evident in single-malt beers like Pilsner.

If you were to brew a single-malt ale I suspect you'd detect differences. But as a general rule I shouldn't worry too much. If you were to substitute Pils malt in a recipe which specifies, say, Maris Otter, you might detect a slight difference, but not so much that the recipe would be ruined, certainly.

I guess what I'm getting at is "Don't worry about it unless you intend to brew ales with a grist consisting solely of base malt." And even then - like in the Trippel you mention - it's actually a good thing.

Cheers,

Bob

 

[piteko]

Thanks for the support, Bob
Btw, my question was on pilsner but comes from a general wondering. Most of the times you can see pretty detailed hop definition sheets (like www.brew365.com), and substitution charts are common. I haven't seen any of this around for malt, to describe how much caramel or roasted flavour a single malt can impart and how obtain it with a different kind of malt.

Cheers
Piteko

 

[Ølbart]

I'm not sure a blend of some malts will turn out like one different malt, but I do know that my next IPA will use something like

67% pilsner malt
13% munich
8% caramunich
13% flaked oats

and have an OG around 1065, which is said to be what Mikkeller Stateside IPA uses, and pretty much his standard IPA grist. So it's obviously possible to make a great American ale with pilsner malt. And yes, I know that's 101%.

 

[ArcaneXor]

Pilsner malt tastes totally different than pale malt to me. I'd toast some of it in the oven and add some victory/biscuit and see if that gets you close.

 

[pjj2ba]

I made my standard IPA with pilsner malt instead of pale malt recently (didn't realize I grabbed the wrong bag until I had mixed the grain up :cross: ). I like to do step mashes with pilsner malt so I changed my mash schedule to accommodate the mix up.

The beer turned out pretty well - it was for a friends 50th birthday - a Half Centennial (hops that is) IPA. People loved it! I did however notice there was just a little something missing compared to the pale malt version. I would maybe say, that if one is going for something a little less malt forward, with a good bitterness, then the pils is fine. If you want a more malt forward beer, with maybe not so pronounced a bitterness, then I'd use pale malt. Of course one always wants lots of flavor and aroma in an IPA

The pils version did have a rockin' head though

 

[piteko]

Pilsner malt tastes totally different than pale malt to me. I'd toast some of it in the oven and add some victory/biscuit and see if that gets you close.

I would maybe say, that if one is going for something a little less malt forward, with a good bitterness, then the pils is fine.

That's why I added some vienna and some caramunich II: I had them in my inventory so I tried to figure out what blend could lead to a pale similar malt (I added a bit more caramunich II and crystal to go up with color).

But, anyway, the IPA was only an example (since I already brew it). My question was general

Cheers,
Piteko

 

[JonK331]

Plenty of breweries use only Pilsner malt as their base. Double Mountain and Mt. Shasta Brewing are examples.

Double Mountain says "Great brewing starts with great ingredients. All of our beers are built on a foundation of two-row Pilsner malt (malted barley) from Gambrinus Malting in British Columbia. The Pilsner malt provides the backbone of the fermentable sugars without the grainy proteins so prominent in most US barleys. When available, we use Gambrinus’ Organic Pilsner malt, which is specially hand-selected by maltster Matthias Haaben. Our specialty malts come from a wide variety of the world’s best suppliers, including Crisp and Simpson in the UK and Durz in Germany, depending on the needs of our recipe."