Pid and motorized ball valve for glycol

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crouchingwombat

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I have a motorized ball valve and a pid I'm trying to get to work together.

Inkbid itc 106
Door bell transformer
3 wire motorized ball valve
Rt-100 probe

Using to take glycol from a loop to a fermentor until it gets to temp and then close the ball valve when it is at temp. I need to power the ball valve to open the line at the high temp and then close it again once it reaches the low temp.

I can't figure this out, I've been trying but the ball valve wiring and PID programing to sent power to the ball valve twice is stumping me.

Thanks for the help.
 

Dtsyukfan

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IMG_20200712_122506.jpg

This is where I would start. If it works backward from what you expect, attach green to 6 on your PID instead of 8
ETA : Oops, I forgot to attach neutral to 10 on the controller. :rolleyes:
 

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crouchingwombat

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It worked when I was testing it out, I was worried about that as well.
 

Bean

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depends on the door bell transformer, I've seen some where they peak at 24v but usually drop to between 9-14 volts. I would stick a volt meter on the LV side of the transformer to read what voltages you are getting.

Also, I would wire this a little differently. That PID shows the 6 and 8 as a 12volt DC relay (not enough to power 24 volt pump. I would use the alarm relay on 11 and 12 to pass the signal wire of the valve through with the transformer and PID powered up
 

Dtsyukfan

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depends on the door bell transformer, I've seen some where they peak at 24v but usually drop to between 9-14 volts. I would stick a volt meter on the LV side of the transformer to read what voltages you are getting.

Also, I would wire this a little differently. That PID shows the 6 and 8 as a 12volt DC relay (not enough to power 24 volt pump. I would use the alarm relay on 11 and 12 to pass the signal wire of the valve through with the transformer and PID powered up
I saw that on the paperwork. It also shows those as switched outputs, most likely dependent on settings. Set as PID you would attach an SSR to 6 and 8. Set as "ON/OFF", you would attach a coil of some sort to common and the N.O. or N.C. This is the way I understand it, anyway. Relay output is listed as 3A @ 250V.
 

Bean

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yup, I love inkbird for its price in the door but you always need to throw it on the workbench to figure out how it really wants to work for your application
 
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crouchingwombat

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Thanks guys. I'll work on this, I think my doorbell transformer just failed on me. Any suggestions of something to use in its place?

And I agree with the inkbirds, using auber and love controllers for everything else. Just needed some cheap for 24v. Good thing is the motorized ball valve works from 9-24v.
 

Bean

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when I need them I look on ebay for LED light strip drivers..


Shopped this company a few years ago, I needed low amprage so it cost me less than 5 bucks and they are still going strong.
 
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As I noted in the other thread... this will not work. You are solving the power supply issue above, but a PID will output a duty cycle (binary ON/OFF which will have the valve opening and closing very frequently, which means flow will go from full stopped to full flow transiently (assuming the cycle is long enough for it to go full range - this usually takes about 3 seconds for these models), which will also have the valve operating more than it is probably rated. You would be much better off with a proportional valve in this application.
 
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crouchingwombat

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So you're saying that even running the PID in On/off mode will not work?
 
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If an output is ON/OFF, then the value will either be commanded open or closed. The PID's resulting duty cycle (ON/OFF percentage) will determine that on a cycle to cycle basis. I'm not sure what the maximum PID cycle time is... but say its even as big as 60 seconds, and let's say the valve takes 3 seconds to cycle, then at 50% duty it will be fully open and fully closed for 27 seconds each, and it cycles full range twice per minute. If that gives you the flow you want, that might work. But if the duty is 10 seconds, then its open and closed for 7 seconds each, and cycles 12 times per minute. That's a lot of cycling and my guess is these "inexpensive" valves are not rated for that many/frequent operations.. Now, when the PID calculates a resulting duty of 90%, the valve will not even fully open or close, which may or may not work - it will likely be difficult to tune.

You might get away with a 3-wire valve (one power line for open, the other for close) which holds position when both inputs are off, then finding a controller which will pulse it open or closed slightly, then holds there until the next calculation. Alternatively (and better, IMO) is a proportional valve, which accepts a variable command input (e.g. analog voltage or current). Be prepared to spend at least $150 for a valve like this.
 
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crouchingwombat

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Ah, thanks for the info. What about using a love controller with two outputs wired to the same motorized ball valve. When. It gets to the cool temp it will open the valve, when it gets to the heat temp it will close it. I have one of those and assume it would work better for this scenario, I still would have to drop the voltage as it is setup for 110.

I do wonder what larger breweries are doing since they run similar setup with their fermentors.
 

augiedoggy

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Ah, thanks for the info. What about using a love controller with two outputs wired to the same motorized ball valve. When. It gets to the cool temp it will open the valve, when it gets to the heat temp it will close it. I have one of those and assume it would work better for this scenario, I still would have to drop the voltage as it is setup for 110.

I do wonder what larger breweries are doing since they run similar setup with their fermentors.
we use the hysteresis control in our brewery through brucontrol for opening and closing of our Glycol valves (solenoid valves but same concept) I allow a variance of 2 degrees ( example-cooling comes on when temp is set to 60 when the fermenter goes over 61 degrees) and have a 360 second delay added to the cooling or heating function to prevent swings.

I set my systems to use the main pump in the chiller and when any one of the valves opens the main pump is also activated through a relay with dual contacts (one switching the 120v pump and one the 24v valve.)
 

Vale71

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So you're saying that even running the PID in On/off mode will not work?
Yes, it will work. The PID will turn into a simple ON/OFF controller and open/close the valve based on the set value, process value and hysteresis value. This is how I control my fermentation temp, only I drive the circulation pump directly and use an AUBER pid with RAMP/SOAK function to ramp the temperature in a controlled fashion.
As for controlling the valve you need to check what type of output your PID has. If it's a relay contact then you'll be able to drive the valve directly. Just have one of the two wires from power supply to valve go through the NC contact of your PID's output. If it has an SSR control output then you'll need an external SSR. Just make sure you get an SSR for DC current and a true DC power supply or that won't work.

EDIT: Looks like you need to change to a solenoid valve as well. The valve you have uses one wire for signalling the actuator to switch state. Basically it uses the same wire to command the valve to transition from closed to open as well from open to closed. A PID can't deal with that. You'll ned a NC solenoid valve that will open and stay open for as long as it gets current through the PID output and then close automatically as the PID stops sending it current upon reaching the set value.
 
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