PicoBrew Zymatic

[Anyhowe]

Picobrew straight up told me that their database contains every bit of user data ever generated...even if you delete it, they still have it. It never leaves their system. Think on that.

And the grocery knows everything I have purchased. Don’t give a damn...ymmv.

 

[Mike Howard]

lol....oranges and apples

 

[Anyhowe]

lol....oranges and apples

Yup, how did you know that?!?!?

 

[Trevor Mack]

I noticed you bought malt and yeast recently

 

[Anyhowe]

I noticed you bought malt and yeast recently

fake news

 

[Thorrak]

Yeah. ZX-Ventures (inbev). They own em.

If this is true, it’s new. I was under the impression that ZX was a minority shareholder.

It’s an important distinction if you’re worried about the sustainability of the company longer term, as ZX is less likely to step in and contribute additional capital in the event of - say - a failed product launch.

Picobrew straight up told me that their database contains every bit of user data ever generated...even if you delete it, they still have it. It never leaves their system. Think on that.

I’m fine with them having/selling your data as long as it helps them stay in business.

Seriously though, this is the issue with all “connected” devices and “cloud” services these days. Part of what makes the tech so cheap to the end user is the ability for the data to be mined. That said, I expect the data to be gleaned from the Zymatic recipe editor is less useful than from the combination of Northern Brewer ingredient purchase history and PicoPak sales. (Presuming there is value to be mined in that data at all)

 

[Trevor Mack]

Huge amount of data can be collected from picopaks (recipes, actual sales volume, ratings, style tastes, etc)

Though I also don't know what the user agrees to when onboarding as a picopak merchant... Guessing they give away everything with a click of a button.

 

[dude3516]

As I work in the field the style ratings and recipe components would be good for marketing and seasonal price adjustment. Make winter wheat malt more expensive in spring for the summer hefe’s etc.

While I doubt they would do this the tasting notes could be used with some ai to put together a fun recipe experiment. Hit a button that says IPA and fill out some other wanted descriptors like fruity, eatery, etc and the machine builds you a random recipe

 

[Virginia_Ranger]

So there we a PodCast a while back (can't remember the name it, was a food and beverage one) where the CEO of PicoBrew was on and said one of the uses of the data is for feedback to brewers on how folks are adjusting their reciepies since you can dial back or up IBUs / alchool content on picopaks.

 

[Trevor Mack]

I'm interested in the could improve comments from Ron Zimmerman. Anyone else notice the purely positive feedback in today's email update?

 

[Lax coach]

My update said "We're not shipping these things anytime soon." Not sure what you read.




But yes, that was the very first thing I noticed.

 

[Mike Howard]

Ron is obviously an early adopter and there is no way he would say, or Picobrew would publish anything bad. They are very secretive and closed door about their issues. 10 minutes on the Picobrew forum shows you that...hence why this thread is even in existence.

 

[Mike Howard]

I wish we could see a blowup of this chart. It looks like there are some bumps in the temp ramps.

 

[Anyhowe]

I wish we could see a blowup of this chart. It looks like there are some bumps in the temp ramps.

Way better than my Zymatic ever looked. And light years ahead of any manual system I used. That said my Zymatic differentials never gave me cause for concern with respect to beer quality.

I hope the user interface/dial/push button is improved. Can’t tell you how many times I have pushed the button and accidentally moved the dial. First world problem. Lol.

 

[Mike Howard]

Yea, I do that all the time....I hate that rotary dial...archaic. As to the ramps...I was hoping it was a bit more linear...would be nice if in the advanced editor we could tweak the power % or adjust the overshoot...too much to ask I guess.

 

[Trevor Mack]

Though the ramps aren't perfectly linear, they do look a lot better than most I've seen with the earlier "prototype" known more formally as the Zymatic .

Yeah I'm definitely not expecting either Ron or PicoBrew to share his "constructive" feedback other than what is working well. Though being the first field unit I would definitely share some of that with the larger backing community as it builds an honest relationship and a greater sense of openness in building / designing and productionisation of a new hardware device. Esspecially sense all his "positive" feedback was regarding the main topics of weeks past updates.

Though this unit was hand assembled there is a large difference in QA and process in order to actually start shipping off the assembly line units.

 

[Mike Howard]

IMO QA is non existent at Picobrew....well non-existent in that yes they most likely have one, but its probably a basic test of a complete unit. You know...it powered up, ran some water through a clean cycle or brew and didn't blow up.

Hopefully the mole will read this and they will actually show/describe what they do in an upcoming update, as far as QA prior to shipping, so they can "prove" me wrong. I'd love to hear more about how the individual components were tested, stressed and any expected failure rates were projected.

I really don't trust anything I hear Picobrew say at this point, because its all been fluff. What I will trust are photo's and real life experiences that a few of the folks on here will publish once the Z's start shipping. I can guarantee folks will be able to trust my honest review of the Z2 when I get it. And it won't be all unicorns and rainbows about how awesome Picobrew is, or how awesome the Z series is, or how the Picobrew support team was so awesome and prompt....egads I hate those posts...so fan boy. Just give it to me straight, black and white, no frills, the good and the bad (and yes, there is always bad so don't gloss over it), and give Picobrew props where they deserve it.

 

[Anyhowe]

IMO QA is non existent at Picobrew....well non-existent in that yes they most likely have one, but its probably a basic test of a complete unit. You know...it powered up, ran some water through a clean cycle or brew and didn't blow up.

Hopefully the mole will read this and they will actually show/describe what they do in an upcoming update, as far as QA prior to shipping, so they can "prove" me wrong. I'd love to hear more about how the individual components were tested, stressed and any expected failure rates were projected.

Do you get QC protocol documentation from other appliances you have? I don’t. These are not trouble free , but by no means problematic. To me your comments are becoming as valuable as those of the fanboys.

 

[chiefwigms]

Saw this in my GABF volunteer email - looks like BrewJacket is going to make a run for it too: https://www.beermkr.com/

 

[Mike Howard]

Do you get QC protocol documentation from other appliances you have? I don’t. These are not trouble free , but by no means problematic. To me your comments are becoming as valuable as those of the fanboys.

Lol...funny thing about forums...they send emails that can't be edited...

Mike Howard, Anyhowe replied to a thread you are watching at HomeBrewTalk.com - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Community.

"Yea I was just looking at my troubleshooting detail sheet from Apple for my latest iPhone; interesting. However it was nowhere as informative as the one for my Hottop coffee roaster. That one was was right up there with the trouble shooting protocols they released for my Rocket espresso machine. Really Howard? Sorry to break this to you, and this may be hard to hear, but I don’t think they need to ‘prove’ anything to you.

May be time for a ‘get over it’ pill. "

You seem to have an awfully close attachment to Picobrew...wonder why? We may never know. Bellevue is just across the lake...Oh well...life goes on. Not sure why you care so much about what I say, I'm one guy with my own experiences and my own opinions. I tell it like it is and won't sugar coat it, take it or leave it. Your mileage may vary.

I think folks know I absolutely love my Zymatic (even with its faults) and I am anxiously awaiting my new Z2, but that doesn't mean I'm going to fawn all over the company or try to silence folks who put them down or applaud folks who don't. There are plenty of folks who have had good experiences with Picobrew and plenty who have not. I always prefer to hear the good and the bad before I make buying choices...

You are right though, they don't have to "prove" anything to me personally, they do however have to prove to the consumer that their product is worth the $$$. We shall see. I think I'm not the only one who drops that kind of cash and wants to make sure the investment is sound. My comments were what I think they should do to reassure the pre-order folks that due diligence is being performed...no its not a requirement just a sign of good faith.

Speaking of QC though...in fact most of the appliances I have did come with a troubleshooting document that is a bit more than "email [email protected]" for help. Heck, a number of them have the wiring schematic and parts list inside the cover, ie...microwave, dryer, dishwasher, ac unit, etc...it's not that uncommon. And if they didn't, you know what, I can go online and find a hundred different guys who show how to fix symptom "x" on appliance "y". And for the MTBF, you can usually find that stuff online, once you have the part number, so its not absolutely unheard of for that kind of info to be provided.

Let's just leave this here that we disagree, which is fine. You have your opinion, I have mine. It's all good, at the end of the day we are both drinking homebrew...Prost!

 

[Anyhowe]

@Mike Howard yes I wanted to get a little less sarcastic. But thanks for sharing anyway. Lol.

I care what you say for the same reasons you dont like the fanboys; they distort information with one-sided opinions that lack objectivity.

Ok they hurt your feelings by banning you we get it. Move on. Prost.

 

[chiefwigms]

this is turning into the comment section of Meater

 

[Anyhowe]

this is turning into the comment section of Meater

Ha! Too funny. Btw that looks cool, I just did the whole untangle the stupid wires thing on my Maverick last night.

 

[Mike Howard]

@Mike Howard ...I care what you say for the same reasons you dont like the fanboys; they distort information with one-sided opinions that lack objectivity...

lol...except that my comments are all backed by facts...well my opinion of the company is just my opinion based on the interaction between them and I, but my Zymatic info is spot on...

Hurt my feelings....no, not one of those kind of folks....a lot tougher skin than that.

 

[Anyhowe]

IMO QA is non existent at Picobrew....well non-existent in that yes they most likely have one, but its probably a basic test of a complete unit. You know...it powered up, ran some water through a clean cycle or brew and didn't blow up.

Yup completely fact based comment. Lol. Someone has completely misplaced their Johari window... I’m done. Gl!

 

[Mike Howard]

ha ha ha...clearly a sarcastic comment...you get defensive over these Picobrew comments don't you.

 

[Goblism]

I asked about the z2 timeline, no surprises here:

"Michael!

Thanks for writing in, we appreciate it.

Unfortunately we do not have a fulfillment date set for the Z2 , but more than likely it will be after the first of next year before we begin production and delivery of them.

I know this isn't the most heartening news, but we are committed to bringing the best of what we have to offer with the Z series and know that the wait will be worth it.

In Office Tuesday thru Saturday

-Tim"

 

[Mike Howard]

ZYMATIC STEPPER MOTOR FAILURE

If you have ever received the stepper motor failure error, chances are you have a failing stepper arm seal and the unit needs to be dismantled and cleaned. Sticky wort will leak out of the top of the stepper arm, due to the way it is designed, and this will gum up the internal workings of the arm.

You'll need a 1.5 mm allen wrench, 9 mm hex socket, at least a 15 inch socket extension, a #2 phillips screwdriver and a #1 phillips screwdriver. Its also wise to have a sharpie on hand to mark the stepper motor and the stepper arm.

I usually remove the top of my Zymatic about every three months and perform a QA check to make sure my seal is intact and no leaks are evident. However, I have been brewing a lot lately and last brew session received the error. With the machine off, I manually tried to move the stepper arm and noticed it was frozen solid. That's a good indicator that I had a leak and gummed up the assembly.

Upon removing the top cover of the Zymatic this is what I found.

That's about normal for what I have seen in the past, so it was time to break it down, clean the assembly, relube everything and get back to brewing.

I clean all the individual parts in hot soapy water (not the optic sensor) and I soak the two stainless steel tubes in PBW for about 20 minutes. Then I run a pipe cleaner down both tubes and clean out all of the junk. You'd be surprised what accumulates in those tubes.

All back together and in the home position ready for installation. You'll need to make sure that you use plenty of keg lube on the stepper arm seal that mates the two SS pipes together. This is the wear point in that assembly and the reason that this assembly leaks and causes errors.

I always take this opportunity to align my stepper arm at the home position and the bypass position. Doing this ensures all of the other adjunct positions will align correctly. I make sure my stepper arm is directly in the middle of both the home and bypass holes in my Step Filter cover, after reassembley. It's easily adjusted with the top off if you are slightly off.

 

[drgonzo2k2]

I asked about the z2 timeline, no surprises here:

"Michael!

Thanks for writing in, we appreciate it.

Unfortunately we do not have a fulfillment date set for the Z2 , but more than likely it will be after the first of next year before we begin production and delivery of them.

I know this isn't the most heartening news, but we are committed to bringing the best of what we have to offer with the Z series and know that the wait will be worth it.

In Office Tuesday thru Saturday

-Tim"

Well that is certainly disappointing news and is the sort of thing I'd expect them to put into their weekly updates to provide honesty/transparency to the folks that pre-ordered, not something I'd find out about from someone pasting their email into a forum.

If best case they are able to start shipping in January that would put them a full 6 months behind their original proposed timeline, and based on the updates they've provided thus far I don't think best case is realistic.

I'm seriously considering canceling my pre-order and moving in a different direction.

 

[Mike Howard]

Saw this in my GABF volunteer email - looks like BrewJacket is going to make a run for it too: https://www.beermkr.com/

It's only a matter of time and Picobrew will actually have decent competition and have to behave like a real company...

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/433436998/beermkr-all-in-one-craft-beer-brewing-machine

There will be more, you can be sure of that.

 

[gamerc]

I guess the best news out of all of that is that I have more time to sit on the fence and wait to see if the Z2 is going to work properly and if it is the automation I'm looking for. If not, I'll cancel and move in another direction as well.

 

[Trevor Mack]

Responses and honesty is all we have ever asked for here. Obviously comparing that email thread and the weekly updates there is some threads missing to hold everything together.

Though honestly I never expected "best case" in the first place... Not my first rodeo.

 

[Anyhowe]

Saw this in my GABF volunteer email - looks like BrewJacket is going to make a run for it too: https://www.beermkr.com/

What’s with the mash hops?

 

[Brewfreedom]

Bhahahhah January! Optimistic. Glad I cancelled my pre-order. So that puts them at early April best "non scientific guess removed from my arse prediction".

 

[Brewfreedom]

I asked about the z2 timeline, no surprises here:

"Michael!

Thanks for writing in, we appreciate it.

Unfortunately we do not have a fulfillment date set for the Z2 , but more than likely it will be after the first of next year before we begin production and delivery of them.

I know this isn't the most heartening news, but we are committed to bringing the best of what we have to offer with the Z series and know that the wait will be worth it.

In Office Tuesday thru Saturday

-Tim"

Can you post your email conv at the facebook group? I want to see some of the fan boys cry and crap their drawers in rage that this wont be ready by XMas.

 

[Brewfreedom]

It's only a matter of time and Picobrew will actually have decent competition and have to behave like a real company...

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/433436998/beermkr-all-in-one-craft-beer-brewing-machine

There will be more, you can be sure of that.

Daddy inbevbucks and picopacks are not going to save them.

 

[drgonzo2k2]

I won't post their whole email, but I did reach out yesterday about this and was told:

"We shipped out first unit last week, and once Beta testing is finished with that unit, we will proceed to mass producing them to be shipped out to our loyal customers.

I imagine that yes, the first units will be shipping early in 2019."

The bold there is my emphasis.

 

[gamerc]

I'm not upset about taking more time to develop than they said in their email. I don't feel like this is a kickstarter gone wrong campaign where I will never see my money again. I genuinely just want the best product for my needs. At this time, I think the promise of Z2 automation fits that bill. Is it perfect, of course not. Will it be surpassed by someone else do something better? Most definitely. But someone has to make the first thing and demonstrate a market for the service. I think they are doing well, and I have had nothing but good responses from them as a company. I'm going to brew something else on my pico-c this weekend.

 

[Mike Howard]

Oh I'm sure they will deliver, I'm not worried about that, but they are so unreliable and unrealistic that it may be mid-2019 for the first Z2 and well beyond for 3s or 4s. It's funny that they called it Beta testing...that's basically what the Zymatic was. What I get out of all the updates and feedback is that they are still trying to figure out the logistics and the design of the Z2/3/4 and the "mass" production of those units will not come for quite some time.

I'm definitely open to cancelling my Z2 if something else comes along that suits my purpose. The delay in delivery just let's me take that much more time to research the available options or find another Zymatic I can hack a RPi into.

 

[Trevor Mack]

This week I emailed and asked about any of the areas that could improve based on Ron's few test brew sessions (now he has had it more than a week) and they have responded that all his feedback has been posted to Facebook (of
which I don't use...) though I'd guess all of it is positive based on the language used.

Additionally I asked about mass production of which below was the response.

I am sorry for the lack of info right now, I am really hoping things get rolling towards mass production within the next 60 days or so, but I am not positive on that.