Any good PH meters out there that aren't a pain in the ass to maintain and store?
PH meters that are easy to store, affordable, and accurate at mash temps?
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OP
OP
Don't want to store in storage solution or if I do it should be designed intelligently so I don't need a separate vessel for storage
Not having to calibrate between use would be nice too
Under $200
I live in a small apartment so looking for something compact that I can store away in a small space without it being messy
pH meters in this price range need to be calibrated before every use unless you're ok with a ballpark reading.
also most come with a cap where you put in a few drops of storage solution and you're done. not a lot of work.
if that's too much effort then i'd just skip on the whole thing and believe the water calculators.
also most come with a cap where you put in a few drops of storage solution and you're done. not a lot of work.
if that's too much effort then i'd just skip on the whole thing and believe the water calculators.
A PH meter that doesn't need to be calibrated has not been invented yet, sorry.
I'm currently using this model, it has a special cap that at least it saves you the hassle of continuously replacing the storage solution.
https://www.testo.com/en-US/testo-206-ph1/p/0563-2061
I'm currently using this model, it has a special cap that at least it saves you the hassle of continuously replacing the storage solution.
https://www.testo.com/en-US/testo-206-ph1/p/0563-2061
madscientist451
Well-Known Member
I'm in the market for a PH meter as well, the one mentioned by Vale71, above, is $265 on Amazon with shipping.
I bought this one and have used it the past 6 or so beers and really like it a lot. Comes as a kit with some starter solutions.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01ENFOIQE/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
Rev.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01ENFOIQE/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
Rev.
My problem with Mash pH measurement is threefold.
1) It takes too long for the sample to cool enough to get an accurate reading while not killing your meter. Meters that can measure at mash temp are too expensive for *my* home brewery.
2) If you measurement showed that pH was not where it should be, to what extent should you go in an attempt to correct it? Depending on timings, conversions may already be to a point where it wont matter not to mention that any corrective actions will likely affect mash temp too.
3) I've gone through a few cycles of keeping track of strike water pH (both from testing personally and via lab submissions), using tools like BrunWater to calculate things and actually measuring during the mash. Through this I've found enough variance in the testing measurements for me to find these things not 100% reliable.
In the end I've found that the calculated mash pH from BrunWater was "close enough" to what I measured if not spot on in most cases. Because of this, I've stopped worrying about measuring mash pH and trusting the tools of my process based on prior outcome.
Given your constraints, and based on my own experiences, I'd suggest that you spend your money on water analysis via a lab instead. You can have your water analyzed a few times a year in order to account for seasonal changes to your water supply. Keep a log of these over time and use the profile that matches the time of year with your recipe and tool of choice.
You can take this a step further and find a different metric to base your water profile selection on such as TDS. A good TDS meter is way cheaper than a pH meter and the measurements are quick. This is what I do; I measure TDS at the tap and use that to help me target the many prior water analysis (includes TDS, both what I measured at collection time as well as the "calculated measurement" from the report.) results I've done over time.
Wanna buy my pH meter? Its *lightly used*...
1) It takes too long for the sample to cool enough to get an accurate reading while not killing your meter. Meters that can measure at mash temp are too expensive for *my* home brewery.
2) If you measurement showed that pH was not where it should be, to what extent should you go in an attempt to correct it? Depending on timings, conversions may already be to a point where it wont matter not to mention that any corrective actions will likely affect mash temp too.
3) I've gone through a few cycles of keeping track of strike water pH (both from testing personally and via lab submissions), using tools like BrunWater to calculate things and actually measuring during the mash. Through this I've found enough variance in the testing measurements for me to find these things not 100% reliable.
In the end I've found that the calculated mash pH from BrunWater was "close enough" to what I measured if not spot on in most cases. Because of this, I've stopped worrying about measuring mash pH and trusting the tools of my process based on prior outcome.
Given your constraints, and based on my own experiences, I'd suggest that you spend your money on water analysis via a lab instead. You can have your water analyzed a few times a year in order to account for seasonal changes to your water supply. Keep a log of these over time and use the profile that matches the time of year with your recipe and tool of choice.
You can take this a step further and find a different metric to base your water profile selection on such as TDS. A good TDS meter is way cheaper than a pH meter and the measurements are quick. This is what I do; I measure TDS at the tap and use that to help me target the many prior water analysis (includes TDS, both what I measured at collection time as well as the "calculated measurement" from the report.) results I've done over time.
Wanna buy my pH meter? Its *lightly used*...
These are all good points. One that isn't mentioned is that by the time you can measure the mash pH properly, most of the conversion is done so you no longer can adjust the mash pH. If you brew similar types of beer you take the mash pH at 15 to 20 minutes into the mash, record your findings, then make adjustments for the following batch. That works OK until you go from a wheat beer to an imperial stout and your pH is changed by the type of grains you used. Lots of batches of beer, lots of samples, lots of notes and you are likely to know how to adjust the pH. Note that there is an optimum pH just as there is an optimum yeast pitch and optimum grain to water ratio. Many of us never worry about the optimum and still make good beer.
Soulshine2
Well-Known Member
cheapest way to check pH is litmus paper strips. no calibration, no batteries. as long as you keep the container closed and dry ,it stores very easily.
OP
OP
Currently that's sorta what I do. Just rely on water calcs and an imperical approach. I live in NYC and my water is as soft as can be. I'm happy with my warer profile on everything besides very dark beers like stout which I believe need high bicarbonate. Currently I only adjust with gypsum and cacal. How to tackle soft water and a good stout?
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Two meters are mentioned by A.J.Delange in the sticky, here. They're about $100-120 I think. Plus it's a good read. There's quite the debate over mash pH due to not having certain malt metrics, making the various sheets only as good as the best guesses used, which come out quite well sometimes and leave you scratching you head others (confirmation bias abounds).
I keep a large stainless bowl around on brew day to cool off my pH and hydrometer samples. I got frustrated with how long it took for hydrometer samples to cool down to where even temp corrected the values were accurate. I need hydrometer samples on brew day. As stated earlier, pH values are great for the next brew day of that beer.
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^This. I start the brew day putting ceramic bowl (large heavy thermal mass) into freezer. When I take pH sample from mash, swirly twirly in frozen ceramic bowl brings sample temp down fast.
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I have a similar set up: High walled stainless bowl with a mason jar in it. I take my hydrometer sample of ~300 ml in the mason jar. Screw on a cap with a drilled hole for my thermometer. Then, I fill the bowl with ice and just enough water to match the wort level in the mason jar. It takes less than 5 minutes from mash temp or boiling to bring the wort down to 60F to 70F where I can take my readings.
I take a sample that is enough to read without being wasteful. It goes into a narrower than average glass and into the very back of my freezer. Cools down to at least 85F in about 10-15 minutes. As mentioned there are ways to speed that up and having the glass in the freezer ahead of time helps.
Exactly. This is why I don't bother to adjust, I just accept it. If for some reason the pH were worrisomely off I might adjust and just hope for the best but that has never happened so far in my years of brewing. My reason for taking mash pH is so I know what I am getting and if I need to adjust next time I brew a certain beer. I have a number of finalized recipes and once I've settled on the water treatments and am hitting desired pH correctly then I stop taking the pH reading for that beer going forward. Sure it can swing due to variances in the grain and water but the swing usually wouldn't be so super dramatic IMO.
Agreed, it is indeed typically in the ballpark, often I've found it spot on. Still is wise though if you're working on tweaking a beer recipe and/or trying to finalize the recipe to use an actual pH meter. If you're just blowing through one-off recipes that you likely won't ever rebrew then yeah, I think the an accurate water report and a water calc is sufficient.
Rev.
I'm in NYC too
As to your question, slaked lime (can be ordered on Amazon). It will add bicarbonate and will also raise the mash pH which would likely come in low with our water.Rev.
Anyone that expects their pH probe to last, had better be cooling their wort to room temp before measurement. Small wort samples will cool quicker and I use a small diameter pH probe that fits in a regular shot glass so that I only need about 5 or 6 ml of wort to submerge the probe’s bulb. By prechilling the glass and using an ice bath, I can cool my sample in 2 to 3 minutes.
The probe diameter is an important factor to me. Those big all-in-one probe/meter units require a larger container and more wort that requires cooling. Smaller diameter is definitely better.
PS: As most have found, pH papers are virtually worthless in brewing use. Don’t kid yourself that your measurement has any value.
The probe diameter is an important factor to me. Those big all-in-one probe/meter units require a larger container and more wort that requires cooling. Smaller diameter is definitely better.
PS: As most have found, pH papers are virtually worthless in brewing use. Don’t kid yourself that your measurement has any value.
JONNYROTTEN
Well-Known Member
What I can tell you is the $20 yellow PH meter on Amazon Ebay ETC is completely useless. I dont think affordable and accurate can go together in the same sentence when it comes to PH meters.Then theres the probe replacements that ain't cheap either
Shwagger
Well-Known Member
I have one and its accurate compared to my spreadsheet calcs, to tenths. And it holds calibration too. I use a YSI at work and it needs Cal all the time. Several thousand dollars piece of equipment.
I dont remember which meter I bought, but the reviews were good.
My understanding is once you allow enough time to collect an accurate ph reading, the damage has been done. No fixing it. Rather note changes for the next batch.
brew703
Well-Known Member
I used to worry about testing my PH- I can vouch the cheap PH Meters are useless and I'm not going to spend $100-200+ for a meter.
I just trust the water calculators and use lactic acid as called for using Bru n Water.
I just trust the water calculators and use lactic acid as called for using Bru n Water.
shelbymedic
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Have you found strips that give ph values to the tenth and hundredth decimal place?
SoCal-Doug
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lol. pH papers. that read in course color values identical to the colors of say... a pale ale, an amber, an irish red, and a porter. yup. useless.
Cato1507
Well-Known Member
I went with the Apera ph60.
It's a nice meter and probe head is replaceable. It was about $72 but to get a nice portable digital pen style that works well, it's a good value IMO.
It comes with a small starter amount of calibration fluid and storage, but you really have to get a bigger set. I bought mine off Amazon and got the extended warranty for a couple dollars.
Soulshine2
Well-Known Member
no, i dont overthink things like that in the first place.
This is just my experience, there really is no difference between using strips and just not taking pH measurements. Using a calibrated meter is eye-opening if you care about tracking pH.
Speaking of which, I have a barely used bottle of strips if anyone wants them for the cost of postage.
Speaking of which, I have a barely used bottle of strips if anyone wants them for the cost of postage.
I have been curious about mash pH (and water chemistry in general). Nothing had jumped out at me as a pH problem, so I was not sure I wanted to invest $150 or more into a "good" meter. I recent got a <$40 meter (Dr. Meter PH100: https://drmeter.com/collections/moi...ze-ph-meter-with-atc-0-14ph-measurement-range). It seemed like a decent place to learn about pH and pH meters.
After calibration, I used it on my first beer a week ago and it said my mash pH for an IPA was 5.7. At some point I will see how that compares to BrunWater and play around with the acidulated malt I just picked up.
After calibration, I used it on my first beer a week ago and it said my mash pH for an IPA was 5.7. At some point I will see how that compares to BrunWater and play around with the acidulated malt I just picked up.
shelbymedic
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Well then why do you use strips? All the strips I’ve seen tell you the pH by the whole number. But you don’t want your mash just to be 5.0 or 6.0 or whatever. You need it accurate to 5.2 or 5.4, etc
That’s why I was asking.
I have the same one, easy to calibrate, and easy to store in it's case with all the calibration fluids in one place.
I have the same Apera meter as well and it has worked well through 2 brew days so far. I calibrate it while heating strike water but it was within 0.01 both times. That said the amount of acid needed to adjust the mash both times was exactly what the water spreadsheet predicted so...
Yep still loving mine too. Been working great. Such a huge improvement over the Milwaukee PH56 I used to own. Easy to calibrate, stabilizes nicely, easy to use, nice cap with storage solution fill line, etc. Glad I took a chance on it.
Rev.
VirginiaHops1
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I use a meter I got for $15 on amazon. I calibrate before each brew with the 4.0 and 7.0 solution. I know it's a cheap meter but I figure if calibrated it has to at least give a decent ballpark estimate. At least it's another data point in my notes. I haven't been able to bring myself to pay $100+ for a nicer one yet.
In terms of the sample taking too much time, just pull a shot glass sample during mash and it shouldn't take long to get it down to room temp in a bowl of cold water. Only takes me about 5-10 minutes. I never try to adjust my ph during the mash. Just take readings for future reference.
In terms of the sample taking too much time, just pull a shot glass sample during mash and it shouldn't take long to get it down to room temp in a bowl of cold water. Only takes me about 5-10 minutes. I never try to adjust my ph during the mash. Just take readings for future reference.
