Ph levels

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Brewn4life

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I have ben doing some reading about what PH level should be and it seems like the yeast are most happy at a 4.5ph. So I was wondering if I check it first thing going into primary and it's to high what would you recommend I use to lower the PH with out adding any type of off flavor to the beer?
Thanks for input!


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The yeast themselves can adjust the pH to their liking. Manual pH adjustments are sometimes needed during the mash process which usually translates to suitable kettle pH. If you've had a successful mash, or are starting with extract, fermentation pH should be close enough for the yeast to fine tune.
 
Thanks Mason,
I would like to do some experimenting as well. With my other hobby I can add lemon to drop the PH and it won't come through, but with beer I would expect that I could taste it. I can also use baking soda,citric acid or lactic acid. Would we be able to taste any of this in small amounts in the beer?


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Phosphoric works fine. I personally use lactic acid to adjust mash ph. Flavor isn't a concern with the volumes you would add ( I add 9ml into 10gal of mash/sparge water).
 
I have ben doing some reading about what PH level should be and it seems like the yeast are most happy at a 4.5ph. ...
Source? I'm not sure exactly what it means and suspect it doesn't give us an actionable goal. My wort is never anywhere near 4.5 as it goes into the fermenter; it's more like 5.0-5.2.

But yeah, I'd love to experiment with this too. Get to it!
 
I have no idea what the 4.5 refers to. pH can vary after mash due to the boil, fermentation and style. 5.2-5.7 is the prefered range for the mash, which counts the most. Lower will get more acidic and tart but doesn't affect much else (I regularly end up around 5.25 in the mash with no ill affects. Above 5.5 can really mute flavors.

Perhaps a mod wants to move this to the brew science forum for more insightful posts?

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=How_pH_affects_brewing

http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Mash_pH_control
 
Ok sorry about that, I make sugar washes as well and was having a PH issue with the primary. That led me to do some research and I found yeast work best at 4-4.5 ph level. I am not talking about mash ph. I'm talking about what is in your primary. So I started thinking about how a beer wort would ferment at lets say with a PH level of 4.5 and the same batch at lets say PH level of 5.5. The problem I was concerned with is changing the flavor of the finished beer. For sugar washes it won't matter, but I expect squeezing a whole lemon in a ten gallon batch of beer will add lemon flavor/smell to your beer.
So it looks like maybe some experimenting to be done. :)



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I have ben doing some reading about what PH level should be and it seems like the yeast are most happy at a 4.5ph.
The various strains have different preferred pH ranges with ale yeast generally liking a slightly lower pH than lager. But masonjax is quite correct. Unless you make it particularly hard to do so the yeast will put the pH where they want it. Ale yeast are better at this than lager so it is more important that kettle pH be in the right range when doing lagers.

So I was wondering if I check it first thing going into primary and it's to high what would you recommend I use to lower the PH with out adding any type of off flavor to the beer?

You should definitely check the pH of the wort at knockout (or in the fermenter). Better in the kettle I guess as it would be easier to adjust there. You should also check pH as the fermentation progresses. A good drop signals a coming healthy ferment and is usually seen well before any other signs of fermentation are apparent.
 
What exactly are you trying to accomplish? Discovering the pH range where "yeast work best" is meaningless, of course, since that's not related to the flavor of the beer. For example, lager yeast propagate "best" at 70-80F, but that won't make great beer.

But I do suspect that each yeast strain probably has an optimal wort pH that it wants to start with for a given wort composition. Then through fermentation the pH will drop a certain amount to the final beer pH. But the "optimal" wort and final beer pH are not defined by the biggest pH drop, or smallest pH drop, or lowest or highest value, etc AFAIK. Rather, the optimal is determined by flavor. So I don't see what you can accomplish fermenting simple sugar solutions.
 
@Speed Yellow...if you ever run a sugar wash through a still you would know exactly what I'm talking about!:)
I have done a bit of research and found that yeast prefer a 4.5+- ph. I just brewed a batch over the weekend and with my ph test strips found that the ph was approximately 4.5-5.0 into primary and around 5 start of boil.


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If your colorpHast test strips are saying 4.5 - 5.0, then the actual pH is around 4.8 - 5.4. Any sort of quantitative pH analysis really requires a meter since the strips just aren't reliable.

How are you defining a yeast's "preferred" pH? In my experience, a given yeast strain will ferment to a variety of final beer pH's, seemingly depending on lots of factors: wort composition, wort pH, water alkalinity, yeast vigor, etc. And again, what the yeast want and what you want may well be two different things.


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