Pediococcus Woes

[landhoney]

I never thought a nice, clean looking, nicely sour smelling, vigorously bubbling starter would be a problem, but it is. Pedio is not supposed to produce CO2 or any other gases for that matter! I'm not sure how you tell you're Pedio starter is working, but it supposedly can take up to a couple weeks to get going. Mine started bubbling ~3 days in, which is pretty good because the cell count is supposedly very low, but again it shouldn't be bubbling. The pack was very fresh, only a couple weeks old actually. My sanitization was good, I've never had an infected starter. It smells very similar to the empty pack after I opened/pitched it into the starter. As I see it either:
A) infected
B) Wyeast put Lacto in there by mistake

I guess when its done I'll taste it and see what I've got, based on the smell and look it doesn't seem like its anything bad. If anyone has any info/advice on this situation I'm open to it. Thanks.

BTW, I emailed Wyeast, they're pretty good about answering questions, so hopefully they'll have some helpful info soon.

 

[Evets]

I have no experience here but, Is it possible that the Pedio is blended with some other more neutral yeast?

 

[landhoney]

I have no experience here but, Is it possible that the Pedio is blended with some other more neutral yeast?

Its not supposed to be, Wyeast lists it as a pure strain. Good idea though, thanks.

 

[avidhomebrewer]

What did you make the starter with? Why did you make a Pedio starter? I have used Pedio a few times and have never made a starter with it; when it comes time to pitch the yeast, I pitch the Pedio at the same time. When it comes time to mash, I may add a bit of maltodextrin to help the bacteria in the long haul, but not all the time. All of my sour ferments have worked out just fine w/o making a starter. The 100 ml packs from Wyeast, for me at least, have worked out fine.

Good Luck!

 

[landhoney]

What did you make the starter with? Why did you make a Pedio starter? I have used Pedio a few times and have never made a starter with it; when it comes time to pitch the yeast, I pitch the Pedio at the same time. When it comes time to mash, I may add a bit of maltodextrin to help the bacteria in the long haul, but not all the time. All of my sour ferments have worked out just fine w/o making a starter. The 100 ml packs from Wyeast, for me at least, have worked out fine.
Good Luck!

Trying to stretch a buck my friend . I've got a lot of beers I want to add this to, so I'm planning on growing it up and adding some...growing some more...adding some more,etc. to multiple beers rather than buying a pack for each beer. Its growing in DME and glucose.

 

[Ó Flannagáin]

Trying to stretch a buck my friend . I've got a lot of beers I want to add this to, so I'm planning on growing it up and adding some...growing some more...adding some more,etc. to multiple beers rather than buying a pack for each beer. Its growing in DME and glucose.

amen.........

 

[avidhomebrewer]

Yeah, I hear ya, the bacteria pouches are kinda pricey (some close to $10 for 100ml's)

 

[landhoney]

Well I guess its an infection, I don't understand how/why though. I poured off some of the starter liquid and cooled it. Today I tasted it and it tasted great, nice lactic sourness. So some of it is into the Gose, for better or worse. The Wyeast lab person and I exchanged several emails, they indicated there was no chance the package was mislabeled, here's an excerpt from the last:

" In these beers, once the gravity has dropped significantly, the pedio won't do a lot. The low gravity and subsequent lack of nutrients will keep it from doing anything. Pedio typically needs a nutrient rich environment to survive... unless you have massive amount of that microorganism in the beer/wort. 5733 is Pediococcus damnosus. We only sell one."

She/He(name is ambiguous as to gender) also said not to use Pedio in a Berliner Weisse, just FYI. They also confirmed that diacetyl can be a problem:

"If you are using a diacetyl reducing yeast w/ the pedio, you should be able to run a diactely rest to remove the diacetyl.. though, the pedio will continue to produce the diacetyl in the finished beer."

However, if the first quote is any indication, if the beer has a low final gravity the Pedio won't have much to work with. I imagine keeping the finished/bottled beer on the cool side would help as well.

Live and learn.