Papain destroy Yeast !!??

[Hector2000]

Adding papain before fermentation may cause yeast to destroy?

May the fermentation not start?

I started making a beer two days ago, which I used papain in the mashing step(for eliminating chill haze), and after two days the fermentation has not started yet, I am worried that the papain is still active in my wort and has broken down the yeasts.

As you know Papain is a protease enzyme that can digest proteins and is very heat and PH resistance.

Someone has idea or experience?
Am i lost this batch?

 

[RPh_Guy]

Practically all enzymes are destroyed by boiling. Also, protease enzymes will not prevent fermentation.

There is a problem with the yeast.

 

[bracconiere]

Practically all enzymes are destroyed by boiling.

last i saw he was trying no boil mashed brewing?

but i'd wonder why use papain? isn't that an enzyme that soften fruit or something?

and for @Hector2000 for clear beer, my understanding is is you want to clump them protiens together so they drop out, not break the amide bonds? if you're breaking the amide bonds, you're just going to have a bunch poorly water soluble amino acids floating around?

 

[Hector2000]

Practically all enzymes are destroyed by boiling. Also, protease enzymes will not prevent fermentation.

There is a problem with the yeast.

I have read many articles that mentioned papain is stable on heat(Papain is a relatively heat-resistant enzyme, with an optimal temperature range of 60 to 70 °C.)
I always use M54 yeast .
First i added starter to wort and after 2 day i added one dry pocket but very little activity observed.(last time i dont have this problem and fermentation was very active)

My argument for this problem is that yeast is killed by papain.(papain usually use for making yeast extract from yeast,This mean the papain can kill live yeast and cause whole of yeast cell membrane destroy)

last i saw he was trying no boil mashed brewing?

but i'd wonder why use papain? isn't that an enzyme that soften fruit or something?

and for @Hector2000 for clear beer, my understanding is is you want to clump them protiens together so they drop out, not break the amide bonds? if you're breaking the amide bonds, you're just going to have a bunch poorly water soluble amino acids floating around?

I boiled the wort for 90 min according to most recipes.(wort without boiling just was a idea that i like to try it in the near future)

I tried to prevent chill haze by using protease enzyme like papain.
One of the major reason for chill haze is protein and usually protease enzyme use for solve this problem.(It do this by cleaving the peptide bonds and break proteins to amino acids)

Another reason for chill haze is PolyPhenol that filter by 0.5-1 micron membrane solve this problem too.

 

[Hector2000]

This is my fermenter(I use wet T-Shirt method)
I removed air lock due to very little activity of fermentation)

S.S Pot for boiling wort(in this image i am cooling wort by spiral copper tube (Chiller)and sanitizing area with 4 open gas flame)

Membrane filter and carbonating system.


P.S: Sorry for my funny and Non-professional equipments.

 

[marc1]

So you added an active starter to the wort and it did not ferment? What is the specific gravity, measured with a hydrometer?
I would think that boiling for 90 minutes would denature the papain. Maybe your problem is elsewhere.

Also, don't be embarrassed about your setup, a large component of homebrewing seems to be constructing home made equipment.

 

[Hector2000]

So you added an active starter to the wort and it did not ferment? What is the specific gravity, measured with a hydrometer?
I would think that boiling for 90 minutes would denature the papain. Maybe your problem is elsewhere.

Also, don't be embarrassed about your setup, a large component of homebrewing seems to be constructing home made equipment.

Yes,
I made active starter (600 billion cell)according to online calculator:
https://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/Also i added one dry pack of M54 after 48 hour due to very little activity of fermentation.

My wort Specification:

O.G: 1.050(checked by hydrometer and scales)
Wort volume:50 liter
Malt: 7 kg Pilsner + 1 kg Biscuit
Mashing program:BIAB 60 minutes at 67c with added Alpha amylase+ Glucoamylase + papain
Ph:5.3
Hops:60 gr Magnum(90 min) + 30 gr Mittelfruh(60 min)+30 gr Mittelfruh(10 min)
Yeast:M54
Temp:20-22c
After 4 days very little activity observed

I decide to add another starter to it(600 billion cell).
I sense Little odor of DMS and ester

 

[Hector2000]

Update: Today i added 20 cc of wort to 200cc of new starter(O.G: 1.036 made of DME + vitamin C and Yeast Extract)
After 3-4 hour strong fermentation began and this proves that there is something in wort that prevent fermentation.

 

[marc1]

Yes,
I made active starter (600 billion cell)according to online calculator:
https://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/Also i added one dry pack of M54 after 48 hour due to very little activity of fermentation.

My wort Specification:

O.G: 1.050(checked by hydrometer and scales)
Wort volume:50 liter
Malt: 7 kg Pilsner + 1 kg Biscuit
Mashing program:BIAB 60 minutes at 67c with added Alpha amylase+ Glucoamylase + papain
Ph:5.3
Hops:60 gr Magnum(90 min) + 30 gr Mittelfruh(60 min)+30 gr Mittelfruh(10 min)
Yeast:M54
Temp:20-22c
After 4 days very little activity observed

I decide to add another starter to it(600 billion cell).
I sense Little odor of DMS and ester

What was the gravity of the beer that didn't seem to be fermenting?

 

[Abhishek Dewan]

I’m surprised how did you get that OG for 8 kg malt and 50 litres of batch size

 

[Hector2000]

What was the gravity of the beer that didn't seem to be fermenting?

1.048(the activity is very slow)

As i said before i think Papain prevent strong fermentation.

I’m surprised how did you get that OG for 8 kg malt and 50 litres of batch size

I added 2kg fructose and 1kg sucrose too.

 

[Hector2000]

Another suprising result!
F.G is 1.02 today !!!
I think maybe my fermenter has leak and this cause air lock didnt shown up any activity.