Panel wiring help

[BigJay13]

Hi,

I bought a partially built 50AMP panel off a fellow HBT’er and I’m working on putting it together. The contactors used to power the elements don’t have enough space to power the 10AWG wire plus the 14AWG wire that will go to the light.The only thought I had was to put a wirenut in there but I really don’t want to do that (or know if it is kosher or not). I’ve attached a pic of the controller and the box. Help!

 

[doug293cz]

Can you use a crimp spade like in the picture? Crimp both wires into the connector, and clamp the spade end into the contactor terminal.

Also, there is no reason that you need 14AWG to wire switches, lights, PID's, contacotr coils, pumps, etc. You could use 16AWG or even 18AWG, but you would need to downsize the 15A breaker. It doesn't appear that you have enough space in the box to add more DIN rail terminal strips.

Brew on

 

[RufusBrewer]

You can use pretty small gauge wire for the lamps. Look up the specs of what the lamps draw. If they are LED, they draw next to nothing.

I do not know how much current you elements draw, but it would be worth your time to confirm that 10 gauge is required.

 

[Tobor_8thMan]

From the EB build instructions.

10 gauge: High power items such as heating elements.

14 gauge: Standard items consuming less than 15 amps such as pumps, lights meters, etc.

22 gauge: Extremely low voltage and low current items such as temp sensors, shunt signal, DC power supplies.

 

[BigJay13]

I should have added that the receptacle for the wire in the contactor is too narrow for the spade end. Also, the largest spade connectors I have are 10-16 Gauge and there is no room for anything else besides the 10g wire. Hence the problem.

 

[bruce_the_loon]

What you need is another set of terminal blocks like those in the bottom of the left DIN rail in your second picture, the ones under the green wires.

What you have there is a pair of single connection terminal blocks with a jumper linking the two, so you have one wire coming in and two coming out the other side. Get another pair of those with a jumper, run the 10g wire from the BK contactor into it and then a 10g out to the receptacle and the 14g out to the other circuits.

 

[doug293cz]

What you need is another set of terminal blocks like those in the bottom of the left DIN rail in your second picture, the ones under the green wires.

What you have there is a pair of single connection terminal blocks with a jumper linking the two, so you have one wire coming in and two coming out the other side. Get another pair of those with a jumper, run the 10g wire from the BK contactor into it and then a 10g out to the receptacle and the 14g out to the other circuits.

OP's problem is that he would need 4 of those terminal blocks (two contactors w/two problem terminals per contactor), and he doesn't have that kind of room.

OP: have you looked at connecting the lamp wires to the element receptacle terminals, instead of the element contactor terminals? You can use much finer wire for the lamps than 14AWG.

Brew on

 

[smcinco]

How about stuffing both wires into one ferrule and crimping it with a ferrule crimper like this: Ferrule Crimping Tools Wire Pliers - 1800 PCS Wire Ferrules with Crimpers Pliers Kit for Electricians, Adjustable Ratchet Tools with Terminals Connectors AWG 28-7, 0.08-10mm² - - Amazon.com

 

[bruce_the_loon]

OP's problem is that he would need 4 of those terminal blocks (two contactors w/two problem terminals per contactor), and he doesn't have that kind of room.

OP: have you looked at connecting the lamp wires to the element receptacle terminals, instead of the element contactor terminals? You can use much finer wire for the lamps than 14AWG.

Brew on

If he can't connect to the receptacle terminals, what about something like this? https://il.farnell.com/phoenix-contact/pt-4-twin/terminal-block-din-rail-3pos-10awg/dp/2706859

1/4" width for three 24-10 AWG connections, can do hot + neutral for both contactors in under 2 DIN module widths, rated to 36A and 800V. It is push-fit though.

 

[doug293cz]

If he can't connect to the receptacle terminals, what about something like this? https://il.farnell.com/phoenix-contact/pt-4-twin/terminal-block-din-rail-3pos-10awg/dp/2706859

1/4" width for three 24-10 AWG connections, can do hot + neutral for both contactors in under 2 DIN module widths, rated to 36A and 800V. It is push-fit though.

Those look helpful, especially if some of the less space efficient terminal blocks already in place are replaced by those.

If this option doesn't create enough space on the DIN rails, it is possible to get rid of the octal relay used for the safe start function and implement the safe start function by making the main power contactor self latching. I can provide diagrams that show how to do this.

Brew on

 

[BigJay13]

Thanks so much everyone for the ideas. I’m going to try to rearrange things a bit to see if I can make everything fit. I still need to add a neutral BUS which should be relatively small but I am not sure there is enough room for everything. If there isn’t I’ll PM doug293cz for the deets on removing the safe start.

 

[doug293cz]

Thanks so much everyone for the ideas. I’m going to try to rearrange things a bit to see if I can make everything fit. I still need to add a neutral BUS which should be relatively small but I am not sure there is enough room for everything. If there isn’t I’ll PM doug293cz for the deets on removing the safe start.

The modification won't remove the safe start, just implement it without the extra relay.

Brew on