Pale Ale using RO water

[Chris7687]

Hey guys,

So I am trying to get a little more advance in my brewing with the study of water chemistry. Let me say first off that I was never a fan of chemistry, from middle school through the last time I was forced to take it in college. With that being said, my understanding of it is a little more "layman's terms" than some might comprehend on here.

I have been doing a lot of reading on the threads, Bru N/ Water's tutorial, podcasts, and YouTube videos. Also, I have obtained the follow supplies to start my water treatment: Pentek ChlorPlus 1 micron filter and housing, Etekcity PH-2011 PH Meter pen, a variety of water additions, and my word files of notes!

I ordered my test kit from Ward Labs, but that won't be back in time for this weekends brew. So, I will be using the RO water (I believe) from the dispenser at my local grocery market (Publix), instead of using my ChlorPlus filter and guessing what my profile is.

This weekend I am going to be brewing a hoppy and fruity PA and had a few questions I wanted to run by before getting started. Was hoping you all could review this and give me any pointers in case I missed something.

The grain bill is 19lb Maris Otter, 2 lbs Munich, 1lb Honey Malt, and 8 oz Carapils.
OG: 1.054 / FG: 1.011
IBUs: 39.1 / Color: 6.2 SRM
Mash Size: 17.5 gallons (BIAB) Batch Size: 11 Gallons

Using RO water assuming 8.0 pH the additions I calculated are as follows 8.8g Gypsum, 7.0g Epsom Salt, 1.8g Canning Salt, 3.5g Calcium Chloride, 1.8g Chalk, and 10oz Acidulated malt.

My only concerns are the acidulated malt I have read should only be 1% of total grain bill, this is more than double.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1448381353.176556.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1448381367.719229.jpg

 

[TheHopfather]

It all looks fine to me. You could probably get away with just gypsum and calcium chloride additions, the malt itself has the rest of the minerals you're looking for.

As for acidulated malt, that 1% of the grain bill thing is for a more traditional 3 vessel setup, you're doing BIAB. With the full volume of water used in the mash you'll need more acid to lower the pH. Take the "mash water volume" and lower it on the mash acidification page and you'll see the amount of acid malt you need go down as well. I've used lots more than 1% of the grain bill in acid malt and you can't taste it. I think you've got it all figured out for this brew.

 

[jwalk4]

Oops.

Never mind

 

[TheMadKing]

I would lose the epsom salt, canning salt, and the chalk, those aren't really helping you, and they are actually reducing the acidity of your mash. Your sulfate level is a little high I think, and I would just stick with CaCl and gypsum. I've used up to 3% acid malt with BIAB with no issues too btw.

Definitely wait for a comment from Bru'n himself, or ajdelange, they are the real experts.

 

[mabrungard]

For a pale ale, you definitely have to add some sulfate to the RO water or the beer will not finish dry enough or accentuate the hopping and bitterness. 100 ppm sulfate is literally, nothing in a pale ale. But it's an OK place to start. If you like that result, you can try 200 ppm sulfate in a future pale ale.

The magnesium is a desirable addition and getting it via epsom salt is ideal for a pale ale. Neither the canning salt or epsom salt additions are anywhere near a level that would adversely affect beer flavor. They are flavor enhancers, just like lightly salting a steak. And just like when you leave the salt off the steak, its bland. You don't want bland beer, do you?

Don't add chalk unless you are pre-dissolving that chalk in water with CO2 pressure. In the case of this beer, you shouldn't need any chalk or its alkalinity since the pH is a little high at 5.5. Keep the pH down at 5.4 or slightly less.

 

[TheMadKing]

That's why I said to wait ^ ... I apparently have no idea what I'm talking about Thanks Martin!

 

[Chris7687]

So just to be clear, everyone is saying I can leave as is, but drop the chalk.

Also, I could up the gypsum some for a higher Sulfate to Chloride ratio. Right now I was at 2.75:1 I believe, but it's safe enough up to 9:1 on hoppier beers

Also, get the pH down by adding more acid malt? I don't have any phosphorous acid or other acids on hand.

 

[TheHopfather]

That's all correct. Drop the chalk, up the sulfate (if you want) and lower the pH a little more with acid malt.

@mabrungard - what is the purpose behind the canning salt? Just to elevate sodium levels for flavor? I never thought adding sodium and chlorine to your water would be a good thing...

 

[Chris7687]

One last question, I add all these additions prior to heating up the mash. Does Bru'N Water excel express a specific pH I should be at prior to heating up and doughing in? If I'm still too high in pH, just add crush acidic malt?

 

[TheHopfather]

All of your brewing salts go into your mash water before you heat it. The acid malt goes in with the rest of your grain bill. The pH of your mash will take some time to drop to your final reading, I believe most test it around 15 min into the mash (test at room temp). I've heard AJ and Martin say that "chasing" your desired mash pH isn't a great idea as you can lower it too much doing it that way. Personally I'd go with what Bru'N Water says, measure it, and record the pH for your next brew. If you are too high or low you can adjust for the next time. Acid malt isn't the most accurate way to lower pH because you're never quite sure exactly how much acid you are actually using. If you had lactic or something like that it would be easier to adjust on the fly.

 

[mabrungard]

@mabrungard - what is the purpose behind the canning salt? Just to elevate sodium levels for flavor? I never thought adding sodium and chlorine to your water would be a good thing...

It's sodium and CHLORIDE that you are adding. Chloride is often desirable in brewing water. Both of those ions do add to the perception of sweetness in the beer when dosed at low levels. Just like adding a dash of salt to watermelon. It really does help. Don't be afraid of salt in your beer...just don't add too much.

I don't go above about 25 ppm sodium in pale beers, but I find that up to about 100 ppm sodium in dark beers can be nice.

The water starts to taste 'salty' when the sodium gets to about 250 ppm, so don't worry about salty beer if you use my recommendations above.

 

[TheHopfather]

Whoops, my bad. That makes more sense to me now. I just saw the Cl and assumed chlorine completely ignoring the sodium portion. Thanks for the clarification!