Oxy clean

[wafflesbr0wn]

How much should I use in a 6.5 primary and, how long should it soak?

 

[GottaGetABrew]

Hey waffles, I typically use one scoop for about 6 gallons of water. Generally I let it sit until the gunk on the sides has dissolved. I use the Scoop that comes in the container of oxy clean. Has always worked for me and I rinse extremely well with hot water.

 

[wafflesbr0wn]

Thank u very much

 

[barneygumble]

Hmm, I use the dilution ratio listed for kitchen use. I soak for at least an hour, depending on how stained anything is up to overnight. This is after washing with dishwashing detergent( never brush unless glass) and two rinses. After the soak I rinse twice again. These are all thorough rinses. Then I make a fresh 2.5 gallon batch of star san up and swirl it and make sure I completely coat the fermenter in star san, pour it into a large sink and roll the fermenter in the star san repeatedly until use.

All sinks and counters are washed, rinsed twince, cleansed with oxyclean solution,rinsed twince, then sprayed with isopropyl. The sinks are then rinsed and are ready for star san solution. I wash my hands with the oxy solution too, then dry them, isopropyl them, glove up, isopropyl and dip in star san sink prior to approaching any wort/beer after boil.

People take sanitation too lightly. If you dont want your tattoo parlor taking his needles from your sanitation to inject you, then you dont want to introduce that to your wort/beer. Your wort/beer is a culture medium just waiting to grow an infection. You need to think like a lab. You want your beer to flourish with the innoculated controlled yeast infection you give it, but no other. I know I take extra steps, but I dont get infections in my brew.

 

[E-Mursed]

Hey waffles, I typically use one scoop for about 6 gallons of water. Generally I let it sit until the gunk on the sides has dissolved. I use the Scoop that comes in the container of oxy clean. Has always worked for me and I rinse extremely well with hot water.

+1

Don't use that knock-off from Sun....leaves a bad film behind.

 

[SharonaZamboni]

barneygumble has quite a sanitary operation going on!!

 

[sweetcell]

People take sanitation too lightly. If you dont want your tattoo parlor taking his needles from your sanitation to inject you, then you dont want to introduce that to your wort/beer. Your wort/beer is a culture medium just waiting to grow an infection. You need to think like a lab. You want your beer to flourish with the innoculated controlled yeast infection you give it, but no other. I know I take extra steps, but I dont get infections in my brew.

some people take sanitation too seriously. be clean, sanitize, but let's not go overboard. i don't do all your extra steps and i don't get infections either. star-san alone gets the job done, all this triple-washing and double-rinsing is a bit much IMO. disinfecting your hands then putting them in gloves? those extra steps don't get you much (certainly not enough to justify them - again IMO), just one or the other would suffice. aerate well & pitch properly and the yeast will take over before anything else has a chance. alcohol is a great disinfectant, too.

just wanted to offer a slightly different take - YMMV

 

[barneygumble]

barneygumble has quite a sanitary operation going on!!

Yes I do. lol.

When I first got into brewing, I lost at least half my batches to infection. I endend up stopping for a short time until I found one of the first LHBS in the area. Full of info and stressed sanitation. He's the one who said to me back then, "think of your beer as a petri dish in a lab. To get proper results you need to eliminate and control all variables. You want to grow just the one infection you give your petri dish". Having worked in a lab, I knew just what to do. Twenty years later and the only "infection" I've ever gotten is sitting in secondary right now on 9 lbs of raspberries. These too, are infections I want to give my brew.

 

[duboman]

Yes I do. lol.

When I first got into brewing, I lost at least half my batches to infection. I endend up stopping for a short time until I found one of the first LHBS in the area. Full of info and stressed sanitation. He's the one who said to me back then, "think of your beer as a petri dish in a lab. To get proper results you need to eliminate and control all variables. You want to grow just the one infection you give your petri dish". Having worked in a lab, I knew just what to do. Twenty years later and the only "infection" I've ever gotten is sitting in secondary right now on 9 lbs of raspberries. These too, are infections I want to give my brew.

Whatever works for you but I don't go any where near that extent and have never had an infected beer and I've brewed somewhere in the neighborhood of 400 gallons. If it works for you, cool, but let's not give everyone the idea that they need to be surgically sterile to brew beer.

Cheers!

 

[barneygumble]

some people take sanitation too seriously. be clean, sanitize, but let's not go overboard. i don't do all your extra steps and i don't get infections either. star-san alone gets the job done, all this triple-washing and double-rinsing is a bit much IMO. disinfecting your hands then putting them in gloves? those extra steps don't get you much (certainly not enough to justify them - again IMO), just one or the other would suffice. aerate well & pitch properly and the yeast will take over before anything else has a chance. alcohol is a great disinfectant, too.

just wanted to offer a slightly different take - YMMV

I glove up because any scratches or under the fingernails carry all kinds of nasties even after a dip in star san. Latex gloves are CHEAP at home depot by the gross, and seal off those nails. Look at your nails. Think about where they have been. Nuff said. You double rinse to get rid of any residual soaps or oxy clean. Single rinse doesn't get rid of it all. Two rinses generally do. I wash to remove gross contaminates, cleanse to remove all fine and stubborn contaminates, then sanitize. Thats SOP for any lab procedure. Watch the vids of Wyeast. The dude is gowned up and has a mask. I dont go that far, cuz I am not trying to protect strain purity. Just the stuff that can touch the wort. But its worth the note.

Aeration and pitch rate are just as important. A stir is not aeration. If you do not have forced aeration or oxygen injection, then you gotta stopper/lid your fermenter and shake the living snot outta it. I do cut slack for beers under 1.048 OG. A single pitch of a Wyeast smak pack is fine and your beer turns out fine. Bigger than that and I use a pitch rate calculator and a starter.

All new brewers should remember this tho.

Sanitation
Aeration
Pitch Rate
Fermentation Temp Control
Patience

The more you pay attention to these 5 basic things the better your beer will be.

 

[barneygumble]

Whatever works for you but I don't go any where near that extent and have never had an infected beer and I've brewed somewhere in the neighborhood of 400 gallons. If it works for you, cool, but let's not give everyone the idea that they need to be surgically sterile to brew beer.

Cheers!

Thats not surgically sterile. Thats just completely sanitized.

 

[hefehawk]

If I had to do all of those steps, I would quit homebrewing.

 

[Billy356]

That's actually more steps than we use in the OR! Lol

But you can never sanitize too much...technically.

 

[barneygumble]

Lol.

I know I sanitize more than most, but not much more than you should. Wash, cleanse, sanitize. No biggie. Rinses are to remove the cleaners. As far as gloving up, I'll say it again, and throw this out to every woman on this board. Look at those fingernails, and really think where they've been. I dont wanna drink beer from any guy who doesn't glove up.

Ladies, how far off am I here? lol.

 

[goosegrease]

If I had to do all of those steps, I would quit homebrewing.

+1
Don't ya think we might be teetering on the precipice of obsessive?

 

[BrewKnurd]

Lol.

I know I sanitize more than most, but not much more than you should. Wash, cleanse, sanitize. No biggie. Rinses are to remove the cleaners. As far as gloving up, I'll say it again, and throw this out to every woman on this board. Look at those fingernails, and really think where they've been. I dont wanna drink beer from any guy who doesn't glove up.

Ladies, how far off am I here? lol.

So then do you glove up before drinking a beer? Because otherwise... Jesus, just think where those fingernails have been!

But seriously, if you're worried about the stuff that's too far under your nails for star-san to get to... How is that stuff just going to come falling out into your wort? if star san isn't getting in, how are the nasties getting out? Unless of course you're soaking your hands in the wort, in which case, by all means, glove up!

cheers, and certainly don't let any of us deter you from your process.

 

[barneygumble]

OK, lets hear your process then. Its brew day. You pull a fermenter, airlock, possible stopper, chiller( which I just wash and rinse, the 15 mins of boil time is good there), possible autosiphon for those who dont have a brew kettle, and tubing, etc outta the closet. Been sittin in there for a while or not...go.

Oh I want you to think how many times the stuff you handle comes in contact with the wort. How do you prepare your hands to touch the stuff that touches your wort?

 

[tom_hampton]

I pull a fermenter, and all cold side equipment. I put all the equipment into the fermenter, and fill it overflowing with fresh star-san at the start of the brew day. Then it soaks in star-san until the wort is cool....4+ hours.

I pull a 1 gallon bucket of star-san and keep it near the kettle after flame-out. Once its cold side time, I soak my hands in the star-san for 30 seconds before I handle anything that MIGHT touch wort. I repeat the soak anytime I touch something not sanitized. I do keep my nails clipped. But, I never actually touch wort with my hands, and I don't touch anything that touches wort with my hands.

Before I hook up the transfer tubing to the kettle valve, I soak the outside parts and threads in star-san. Then I transfer into the fermenter and into the chamber it goes.

I pour the new star-san into an empty keg when I'm ready to transfer into the fermenter. Then I will use this star-san as needed during fermentation over the next couple of weeks.

 

[BrewKnurd]

OK, lets hear your process then. Its brew day. You pull a fermenter, airlock, possible stopper, chiller( which I just wash and rinse, the 15 mins of boil time is good there), possible autosiphon for those who dont have a brew kettle, and tubing, etc outta the closet. Been sittin in there for a while or not...go.

Oh I want you to think how many times the stuff you handle comes in contact with the wort. How do you prepare your hands to touch the stuff that touches your wort?

With star san. Because, like I said, the stuff that start san can't get to is not going to just magically fly out on a whim. Also, every thing that touches my wort on the cold side is wet with star san at the time it touches my wort.

I have no interest in outlining my entire brew day, because you have zero reason to care. I pointed out a reason you might be going overboard, and instead of addressing that issue, you instead try to make the convo about other peoples brew day. which is fine if that's what floats your boat. :-D

 

[sweetcell]

OK, lets hear your process then. Its brew day. You pull a fermenter, airlock, possible stopper, chiller( which I just wash and rinse, the 15 mins of boil time is good there), possible autosiphon for those who dont have a brew kettle, and tubing, etc outta the closet. Been sittin in there for a while or not...go.

Oh I want you to think how many times the stuff you handle comes in contact with the wort. How do you prepare your hands to touch the stuff that touches your wort?

my general technique is that i have a 3-gallon batch of star-san solution sitting on my work surface, and anything that is going to touch the wort gets dunked in there first. if i remove a stopper i might put it down on my unsanitized counter-top momentarily, but it will spend 5-10 seconds in the star-san solution before it is put back on the carboy. auto-siphon gets dunked in the solution and some solution gets pumped though it before it touched any beer. during all this dunking my hands go into the drink too. and that's it. yes there is dirty gunk under my fingernails but if the dunking and soaking in star-san hasn't dislodged it, it is unlikely that it will in the split-second that my hand is over the carboy opening.

am i perfectly sterile? nope. am i sanitary enough? yup. have i mentioned that using this "less-than-surgical" approach, my infection rate has been 0.0000%?

p.s. i see a pattern emerging here...

 

[Billy356]

I was hung up on the hands....wash, oxy, isopropyl, gloves, iso, star San....

I put my hands in people's chests from time to time and it involves a 2 step wash and some gloves...

There is nothing wrong with what you are doing of course, just sayin you could safely remove a step or two and replace them with some home-brew-opening steps

 

[barneygumble]

That is good as long as the cold side equipment is really clean. Any little bits of hops/trub etc removed before storage. Anything you miss, tho, that comes off after the 4 hour soak might be a problem. But 99% I am sure that will work. The yeasties will get a head start on anything that might present itself that way. That is the thing that most brewers count on. Get that yeast started before anything else can. Nothing wrong with that. I use the large sink to soak all my stuff in, but if you dont have one, the bucket works fine.

My nails are trimmed and I wash them as well. The gloves are as much psychological as necessary. As long as you soak them like you do. Most dont. And most just spritz the fermenter with star san, wipe it with a paper towel and think they are set to go.

But think of this. You are at the sandwich shop and the guy making your sammich isn't wearing those disposable plastic gloves. He just cashed someone else out and went right to your sammich. Yum.

 

[tom_hampton]

I didn't mention that I clean and sanitize all the equipment before I put it away. Anything used for yeast propagation or storage is sterilized in the autoclave.

The guy at the sammich shop doesn't make my beer. My personal immune system is a finely tuned machine.

 

[barneygumble]

my general technique is that i have a 3-gallon batch of star-san solution sitting on my work surface, and anything that is going to touch the wort gets dunked in there first. if i remove a stopper i might put it down on my unsanitized counter-top momentarily, but it will spend 5-10 seconds in the star-san solution before it is put back on the carboy. auto-siphon gets dunked in the solution and some solution gets pumped though it before it touched any beer. during all this dunking my hands go into the drink too. and that's it. yes there is dirty gunk under my fingernails but if the dunking and soaking in star-san hasn't dislodged it, it is unlikely that it will in the split-second that my hand is over the carboy opening.

am i perfectly sterile? nope. am i sanitary enough? yup. have i mentioned that using this "less-than-surgical" approach, my infection rate has been 0.0000%?

p.s. i see a pattern emerging here...

Pattern? I see a pattern that people have issue with me gloving up. Whatever.

I'll pull a pint or two during mash and boil btw. But I save anything more than that until the batch is in the fermenter and the yeast is pitched. Experience has taught me much more than that means I'm making mistakes.

 

[barneygumble]

I didn't mention that I clean and sanitize all the equipment before I put it away. Anything used for yeast propagation or storage is sterilized in the autoclave.

The guy at the sammich shop doesn't make my beer. My personal immune system is a finely tuned machine.

I use canning jars for yeast propogation and boil them after cleaning.

 

[BrewKnurd]

My nails are trimmed and I wash them as well. The gloves are as much psychological as necessary. As long as you soak them like you do. Most dont. And most just spritz the fermenter with star san, wipe it with a paper towel and think they are set to go.

I'm impressed that you've talked to most brewers.

But think of this. You are at the sandwich shop and the guy making your sammich isn't wearing those disposable plastic gloves. He just cashed someone else out and went right to your sammich. Yum.

This would be a relevant argument if anyone was advocating handling money and then handling their wort with no washing and sanitizing in between. However, the contingent of brewers who do that have been oddly silent.

 

[barneygumble]

Whatever.

I've been doing this a while. I have my process. It works for me. My first post stated I take more steps than others.

The big message I see here by this pile on is "lets tell the new brewers that sanitation is a passing thought, a half hearted measure that shouldn't really take any time or effort or worry".

 

[bleme]

Did anyone else see that thread a couple months ago where the brewer went to visit his grampa who has been brewing for 60 years using a crock with a towel over it in the shed where he dries his deer meat?

Isn't it amazing that he and Barney both make great brew?

 

[HollisBT]

Whatever.

I've been doing this a while. I have my process. It works for me. My first post stated I take more steps than others.

The big message I see here by this pile on is "lets tell the new brewers that sanitation is a passing thought, a half hearted measure that shouldn't really take any time or effort or worry".

If thats the message you got, I think you should take a few hours away from the Internet and calm down... I haven't seen anything remotely close to that, in fact everyone has been saying that what you are doing is fine, but is completely filled with redundancy and over the top excessiveness.

It works for you, and you think it is necessary. We get that, good for you and for having such a thorough process. For the rest of us though, we seem to be just fine with a star San soak before we use our equipment.

 

[sweetcell]

All new brewers should remember this tho.

Sanitation
Aeration
Pitch Rate
Fermentation Temp Control
Patience

The more you pay attention to these 5 basic things the better your beer will be.

wow - very well said. that should be made into a poster and handed out to every new brewer!

Whatever.

I've been doing this a while. I have my process. It works for me. My first post stated I take more steps than others.

The big message I see here by this pile on is "lets tell the new brewers that sanitation is a passing thought, a half hearted measure that shouldn't really take any time or effort or worry".

yup, you've got your process and it works for you. you make good beer

but the emerging pattern that you missed is that others seems to also make good beer and not get infections through the conscious use of star-san - only. no one at any point said that sanitation was a passing thought. dunking everything that touches the cooled wort in sanitizer is an absolute necessity. putting sanitized gloves over sanitized hands is of debatable necessity.

 

[sweetcell]

All new brewers should remember this tho.

Sanitation
Aeration
Pitch Rate
Fermentation Temp Control
Patience

The more you pay attention to these 5 basic things the better your beer will be.

very well said. that should be made into a poster and handed out to every new brewer!

 

[BrewKnurd]

Whatever.

I've been doing this a while. I have my process. It works for me. My first post stated I take more steps than others.

The big message I see here by this pile on is "lets tell the new brewers that sanitation is a passing thought, a half hearted measure that shouldn't really take any time or effort or worry".

I don't see how you get that. No one said you shouldn't do what you want.

If you believe that "not wearing gloves" = "making sanitation a passing thought", then please, actually defend the wearing of gloves when asked. If you believe it is important, and are going to present it as such to new brewers, then you should be able to defend the process against questions. I asked you how, if starsan can't get under your nails, is that stuff under your nails going to get out so easily as to get in your beer. You have provided no answer, merely started asking questions about others brew days, and then making a comparison to making a sandwich directly after handling money. Instead of pointing out why you think that comparison is valid, if you truly think it is, you basically said "i don't understand why everyone is picking on me", which is NOT what is happening.

No one here really cares about your process. I will vigorously defend your right to brew however you want, and if someone wanted to come take your gloves away, I would call them a d-bag. If you wanted to brew in a clean room with hepa filters and positive pressure, AWESOME. Rock on. What I don't like, and I believe others have issues with, is your claims that your steps are necessary, and that those who don't do what you do are skimping, especially when you won't address specific scrutiny of your claims. If you can't defend it, don't be surprised when it gets questioned repeatedly. If you do it only because its what feels right to you, that's fine, but say so and be done with it. Don't tell others they're doing it wrong if they don't do it like you.

This is the beginners brewing forum. Beginners who read this area are here to learn. At least some of us believe that this means that information we don't agree with should be challenged, otherwise it presents the appearance that that information is gospel and everyone agrees. Silence implies consent and all that.

Telling a newbie that steps like wearing gloves are required without actually being willing to back it up borders on scare tactics.

I'm sorry that you feel piled on, I truly am, but this is a discussion forum, not your personal blog. So when you say something, people respond. And if you say something that a lot of people disagree with, a lot of people respond.

 

[TopherM]

I brew outside, and don't even sanatize the deck or the nearby trees or anything. Beer is NOT like a petri dish, unless you boil your petri dish then inject alcohol in it, killing 99.999999% of all germs and human pathogens. Also, your brew environment DOES NOT have to be "like a lab" to avoid infections. Basic cleanliness and sanitation is all it takes.

I would venture to say 9 times out of 10, brewers who get infections in their beer come from improperly cleaned ball valves, bottling spigots, keg posts, plate chillers, pumps, etc. that are overlooked during basic cleaning and sanitation. It's just not enough to run some cleaner through those guys, you have to open them up and give em a scrub. It's those nooks and crannys that'll get ya.

Anyway, just my rant. Infections are HARD to get, and usually a result of pretty blatent brewer error, even if they can't remember where they screwed up.

It's a pet peave of mine all the brewers on this site that give the impression that every brew is an infection waiting to happen. You scare off the newbies!

 

[smurfwar]

So how much oxyclean per gallon of water? De labeling bottles this weekend.

 

[atom]

So how much oxyclean per gallon of water? De labeling bottles this weekend.

View attachment 60559

i scoop per 3-4 gallons works to de-label bottles...

 

[bad67z]

I brew outside, and don't even sanatize the deck or the nearby trees or anything. Beer is NOT like a petri dish, unless you boil your petri dish then inject alcohol in it, killing 99.999999% of all germs and human pathogens. Also, your brew environment DOES NOT have to be "like a lab" to avoid infections. Basic cleanliness and sanitation is all it takes.

I would venture to say 9 times out of 10, brewers who get infections in their beer come from improperly cleaned ball valves, bottling spigots, keg posts, plate chillers, pumps, etc. that are overlooked during basic cleaning and sanitation. It's just not enough to run some cleaner through those guys, you have to open them up and give em a scrub. It's those nooks and crannys that'll get ya.

Anyway, just my rant. Infections are HARD to get, and usually a result of pretty blatant brewer error, even if they can't remember where they screwed up.

It's a pet peave of mine all the brewers on this site that give the impression that every brew is an infection waiting to happen. You scare off the newbies!

+1, I could not have said it any better my self TopherM.

EDIT: I use one scoop per 5 -7 gallons.

 

[WooHokie]

I use 1 scoop per 1 gallon which is what the recommended ratio is on the back of the tub. Wondering now if I've been using too much.

Also, I don't use oxy clean after every batch. I only use it if it was a really nasty batch. I have had no issues with rinsing the buckets with super hot water then using lots of Star San before my next brew session.

 

[duboman]

I use 1 scoop per 1 gallon which is what the recommended ratio is on the back of the tub. Wondering now if I've been using too much.

Also, I don't use oxy clean after every batch. I only use it if it was a really nasty batch. I have had no issues with rinsing the buckets with super hot water then using lots of Star San before my next brew session.

+1 to Topher, made me laugh!

I use 1 scoop per 5-6 gallons for everything from taking off labels to cleaning, works great!

 

[Brewnoob1]

I think people are mixing sanitizing and sterilizing here. From the research I've done, brewing needs only be sanitized. Hence, there may be a VERY small percentage of nasties still around, but the yeast will take over before anything else can. I think whatever process works for you......does just that...works for you. If you don't get an infection, what you're doing is probably working. No need to knock someone else's process if they are doing extra steps. If that's what they feel comfortable with...go for it. I'd probably do more in the way of sanitizing cleaning if I had more space and time available to me to do so. But, at the same time, I seem to be doing the minimum for no infections...so that works.

Brew on everyone....moving right along

 

[sweetcell]

So how much oxyclean per gallon of water? De labeling bottles this weekend.

for de-labeling, the more you add the faster it'll work and the longer you can re-use the same solution. i don't use a set amount... i use a generous half scoop per 3 gallons, more or less. if the stuff doesn't dilute and ends up powdery at the bottom of the water after mixing then i'd added too much and i'll dilute. i don't feel there is a need to be very scientific about it.