Oxidation? Dryhopping underwhelming

[sicktght311]

The last handful of NEIPAs i've brewed have all had the same problem.....underwhelming juice flavor once they hit the keg. However if i dry hop in the keg, i get significantly more hop flavor. I wondered if its an oxidation problem, but i'm having absolutely no problem with my color changing through the life of the keg, and I know a major oxidation sign in NEIPAs is dulling of the color. Mine are all vibrant yellow from start to finish.

I have SS Brewtech brew buckets, and i'll typically dry hop on day 2, and then dryhop with a larger charge a couple points before final gravity. Then i'll usually keg 3-4 days later. I dry hop loose pellets, not in bags. The only place i could see oxidation happening is transferring, since i have yet to set up a fully closed transfer system. I typically gravity feed into a fully sanitized, and co2 purged keg from the bottom up with the lid off, immediately seal, and then purge the headspace 6-7 times with co2 before setting to pressure. However with the lack of change in color, i didnt think oxidation is the issue.

My hop schedule is 14-16oz total between 150 degree whirlpool, first dryhop, and last dry hop. I add about .25oz of Warrior at 60 for bittering. The recent beers just come out boring with no over the top hop aroma as i was expecting. However 1.5-2oz in a hop filter inside the keg brings out a lot more hop aroma.

Thoughts? Am i oxidizing, just for some reason not seeing color change?

 

[Dgallo]

The last handful of NEIPAs i've brewed have all had the same problem.....underwhelming juice flavor once they hit the keg. However if i dry hop in the keg, i get significantly more hop flavor. I wondered if its an oxidation problem, but i'm having absolutely no problem with my color changing through the life of the keg, and I know a major oxidation sign in NEIPAs is dulling of the color. Mine are all vibrant yellow from start to finish.

I have SS Brewtech brew buckets, and i'll typically dry hop on day 2, and then dryhop with a larger charge a couple points before final gravity. Then i'll usually keg 3-4 days later. I dry hop loose pellets, not in bags. The only place i could see oxidation happening is transferring, since i have yet to set up a fully closed transfer system. I typically gravity feed into a fully sanitized, and co2 purged keg from the bottom up with the lid off, immediately seal, and then purge the headspace 6-7 times with co2 before setting to pressure. However with the lack of change in color, i didnt think oxidation is the issue.

My hop schedule is 14-16oz total between 150 degree whirlpool, first dryhop, and last dry hop. I add about .25oz of Warrior at 60 for bittering. The recent beers just come out boring with no over the top hop aroma as i was expecting. However 1.5-2oz in a hop filter inside the keg brings out a lot more hop aroma.

Thoughts? Am i oxidizing, just for some reason not seeing color change?

Yes it’s oxidation. The first sign of oxidation is poor aroma or non bright flavors. When a beer changed color it is substantially oxidized.

 

[SouthForkBrew]

The above is true about the color change. However, I think the majority of the issue you are having has to do with the timing of your dry hop. My recommendation would be to wait until you have reached your final gravity before adding hops. Otherwise the escaping CO2 carries away the aroma in the final stages of fermentation. Adding the hops to the keg is good move too!

 

[day_trippr]

Yes it’s oxidation. The first sign of oxidation is poor aroma or non bright flavors. When a beer changed color it is substantially oxidized.

^that^

Without a closed transfer to a fully-purged keg oxidation is a given. From that point it's all about time for the damage progression to manifest...

Cheers!

 

[Dgallo]

The above is true about the color change. However, I think the majority of the issue you are having has to do with the timing of your dry hop. My recommendation would be to wait until you have reached your final gravity before adding hops. Otherwise the escaping CO2 carries away the aroma in the final stages of fermentation. Adding the hops to the keg is good move too!

If he doesnt have the ability to close transfer he’s better off adding his dryhop at the tail end of fermentation to scub any oxygen getting in. If you can close transfer then yes dryhop 3 days before racking to a purged keg. If you have a large mouth carboy you can modify a solid lide like I have so I can purge kegs with the blow off and also have a full close transfer.

 

[Kiln]

I think you should try bottle conditioning. It's not as easy I Know. Try pasterizing the bottles. I prefer swing top pints. Dunk the bottle in 161f water dump water, then fill and cap. This pasterizing of the bottles insures quality. The bottle conditioning eliminates oxidation. Try it at least once in comparison.

 

[Horseflesh]

While I’m sure I could do a better job avoiding o2, one technique I found helpful is to keep the lid on the purged keg and open the PRV when filling via the liquid post... and then keep filling it until beer comes out the PRV. I’ll let a few ounces spill in an effort to drive all gas from the keg. I also try to remember to poke the gas poppet to let beer drive out any trapped gas in there. Then I seal the PRV and use CO2 to push about a liter of beer out of the keg, and pressurize the keg to 10-15 PSI for transport to the fridge.

Seems like a liquid/gas exchange step might be better than repeatedly purging the headspace, but in any case it uses less gas. Deliberately spilling beer from the PRV is unconventional, but I have a big sink and spray faucet so it isn’t hard to clean up. I haven’t noticed any problems from beer going out the gas paths either... no leaky PRV, no cooties.

The beer removed from the keg headspace gets saved in a 2L bottle and force carbed for immediate taste testing.

This method also lets me not worry about when to stop transferring. No weighing, no guessing at the condensation line... All I have to know is how much beer to remove for a given make of keg in order to have the right headspace for carbonating.

 

[Dgallo]

I think you should try bottle conditioning. It's not as easy I Know. Try pasterizing the bottles. I prefer swing top pints. Dunk the bottle in 161f water dump water, then fill and cap. This pasterizing of the bottles insures quality. The bottle conditioning eliminates oxidation. Try it at least once in comparison.

Bottle conditioning forces the oxygen in the neck to dissolve into the beer and greatly increase your risk of oxidation. Also there is typically one more transfer. If you batch priming you have to add a the priming solution which it’s self can have dissolved oxygen and the it is pouring in which also can oxidize the beer. Hoppy beers, especially those dryhopped are susceptible to oxidation. Bottling these beers are extremely difficult to do with success

 

[SouthForkBrew]

If he doesnt have the ability to close transfer he’s better off adding his dryhop at the tail end of fermentation to scub any oxygen getting in. If you can close transfer then yes dryhop 3 days before racking to a purged keg. If you have a large mouth carboy you can modify a solid lide like I have so I can purge kegs with the blow off and also have a full close transfer. View attachment 636793

That's an awesome setup!

 

[Dgallo]

That's an awesome setup!

Thanks man. I’ve revised it with a floating dip tube and it’s even better

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...lete-closed-transfer-system-for-cheap.680992/

 

[tennesseean_87]

Thanks man. I’ve revised it with a floating dip tube and it’s even better

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...lete-closed-transfer-system-for-cheap.680992/

I'm fermenting in either a corny or a sanke with a ball-lock cap with floating dip tubes. Blow-off purges santized serving keg, then close transfer. yay.

 

[Dgallo]

I'm fermenting in either a corny or a sanke with a ball-lock cap with floating dip tubes. Blow-off purges santized serving keg, then close transfer. yay.

That’s def a great way to do it. I just personally like the fermonster better because im able to yield a 5 gallon serving keg or sixtel

 

[tennesseean_87]

That’s def a great way to do it. I just personally like the fermonster better because im able to yield a 5 gallon serving keg or sixtel

My sanke is a 1/4, not 1/6, so there's plenty of space there. The corny is for when I want a smaller batch because the beer's better fresh or I just want a slightly smaller batch to keep taps rotating.