Oxiclean...two years and no infections

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JONNYROTTEN

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I was cleaning out my kegerator and had no bleach so I looked up using Oxiclean to kill mold...its been sitting awhile. I came across the link below

Theres been debate since day one whether or not Oxiclean is a sanitizer. I'm not a scientist but what I do know is I haven't used Star San or any other product to clean my entire setup(except beer lines) in over 2 years and havent gotten a single infection. And thats everything, nasty fermenters, old kegs, auto siphon, airlocks...everything.

THerefore I can say with certainty theres nothing else you need to clean/sanitize/disinfect, whatever you want to call it,your entire setup.

Use it with confidence

Heres a link that breaks it down a bit....disregard the diapers unless thats your thing o_O

https://parentingpatch.com/oxygen-bleach-disinfect-cloth-diapers/
 

Beholder

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The need to rinse is why it falls short as a sanitizer, but yes, it kills things.
I concur, the no-rinse is the advantage for the Star-san / sani-rinse approach.

If you rinse, then you have not brought in any infection through that water (admittedly a low risk anyhow). If you don’t rinse, then I suppose you haven’t observed any taste change, but not sure of the health implications for oxy consumption.
 

balrog

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but after 30m the peroxide has gone to water and o2 gas so no longer as sanitizing?
 
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JONNYROTTEN

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You have to rinse Oxiclean. It leaves a film. I'm fine with rinsing.....takes about 2 seconds. The point is it works and works well for all homebrew needs and Is cheap and available everywhere.
 
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JONNYROTTEN

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but after 30m the peroxide has gone to water and o2 gas so no longer as sanitizing?
Well then 30 minutes is all you need to get the job done.
I thought Star San directions say to spray on and let sit for 20 seconds. If it does the job in 20 seconds than 30 minutes is way overkill anyway.
 

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JONNYROTTEN What concentration and soak time do you use?
 
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JONNYROTTEN

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JONNYROTTEN What concentration and soak time do you use?
I've never used more than a half scoop the container comes with in 6 gallon keg/fermenters. I usually soak my stuff at the beginning of the brew day and rinse before transfering..so about 4 hours or so. Its not one of those products where it needs to be exact. Just dump some in your bucket/carboy/pot and let it do its thing.
 

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Wouldn't it be along the lines of cleansers (e.g. One Step, Easy Clean)? I used those for years without a problem.
 

Rev2010

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Isnt oxyclean comparable to pbw?
The base yes basically, but PBW has some additional ingredients. Personally I prefer Oxiclean, not because it's a lot cheaper but because it rinses off much easier than PBW. I find I have to rinse stuff many times to get PBW fully off.


Rev.
 

kh54s10

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Late... Wrote this response this morning and left it on screen.... But I still think relevant.



I don't know about the sanitizing effects, but just because you haven't gotten an infection really doesn't mean much.

For me it is clean with Oxyclean and Sanitize with Starsan. I have had no infections. I have also reached into wort with my hands, dropped things in and stirred with tools not sanitized.....

Starsan is not expensive. A 16 ounce bottle lasted me 7 1/2 years and 102 batches of beer and 10 + wines.
 
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JONNYROTTEN

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Late... Wrote this response this morning and left it on screen.... But I still think relevant.



I don't know about the sanitizing effects, but just because you haven't gotten an infection really doesn't mean much.
Actually it does matter. I've had a few seriously nasty fermenters I've forgotten about with the yeast cake still in them. All I did was clean out the funk and soak in Oxiclean and I'm still using the buckets to this day infection free. So whatever its doing its working on killing the bugs. I'm not doubting Star San works. I used it for years. All I'm saying is Oxiclean works just as well and can be found everywhere on the cheap
 

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Zoomed jokes and anecdotes aside, I see no win here. Oxyclean (and PBW) are questionable "sanitizers" and definitely are not "no rinse".
I'm not a fan of leaving cleaner residues on vessels that my beer is going to absorb so I'll stick to my OCD cleaning followed by Star San sanitation just before use...

Cheers!
 
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JONNYROTTEN

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This wasnt meant to be a thread comparing Oxiclean to Star San but since its come up on every reply it did a quick check on the numbers.
I do 10 gallon batches and do a full soak on each fermenter each brew day and throw my equipment in the bucket to soak as well. I also do a full soak of my 5 gallon kegs from time time.

So thats a 10 gallon soak every brew day....no including the kegs

Star San directions call for 1 oz per 5 gallons.
An 8 oz bottle is $12.
THat gives me a whopping 4 brew days a bottle, add in the kegs and I'm down to 3.

A bucket of Oxiclean is like $9 and last forever. So ts WAY more cost effective....and does the same thing.

Yes you can save/reuse Star San but I'm not luggin 5 gallon buckets up and down a flight of stairs when I can just just dump a 1/2 scoop of powder in a bucket and call it a day.

I also trust a full soak over a spritz anyday
 

Qhrumphf

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Betcha you run some microbial lab tests you won't be so sure of yourself...

Hydrogen peroxide is an incredibly effective killer. You can chemically *sterilize* with hydrogen peroxide (although that's a different method).

Until you rinse it with a non-sanitary source and ruin the whole thing. If your sanitizer isn't no rinse, it's not a sanitizer. Period. If you haven't gotten contamination from rinsing (unless you're rinsing with boiling water, in which case if your equipment can stand the temp just pasteurize with boiling water...), it either means a) you haven't noticed it, or b) you haven't gotten one YET.

I don't even like Star-San. It's not effective enough against yeast. Peracetic acid > isopropyl alcohol > iodophor > Star San. Or, when feasible, flame or autoclave.
 
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JONNYROTTEN

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Betcha you run some microbial lab tests you won't be so sure of yourself...

Hydrogen peroxide is an incredibly effective killer. You can chemically *sterilize* with hydrogen peroxide (although that's a different method).

Until you rinse it with a non-sanitary source and ruin the whole thing. If your sanitizer isn't no rinse, it's not a sanitizer. Period. If you haven't gotten contamination from rinsing (unless you're rinsing with boiling water, in which case if your equipment can stand the temp just pasteurize with boiling water...), it either means a) you haven't noticed it, or b) you haven't gotten one YET.

I don't even like Star-San. It's not effective enough against yeast. Peracetic acid > isopropyl alcohol > iodophor > Star San. Or, when feasible, flame or autoclave.
Call it what you will but the proof is in the pudding. Two years running, probably longer without a single infection using it to clean visibly infected buckets and then reusing those buckets tells me it works....and no I wont be sending my $10 bucket to the lab.

Two plus years without issue is a long enough test period to prove it works. Odds are in my favor the "Yet" wont happen
 

kh54s10

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This wasnt meant to be a thread comparing Oxiclean to Star San but since its come up on every reply it did a quick check on the numbers.
I do 10 gallon batches and do a full soak on each fermenter each brew day and throw my equipment in the bucket to soak as well. I also do a full soak of my 5 gallon kegs from time time.

So thats a 10 gallon soak every brew day....no including the kegs

Star San directions call for 1 oz per 5 gallons.
An 8 oz bottle is $12.
THat gives me a whopping 4 brew days a bottle, add in the kegs and I'm down to 3.

A bucket of Oxiclean is like $9 and last forever. So ts WAY more cost effective....and does the same thing.

Yes you can save/reuse Star San but I'm not luggin 5 gallon buckets up and down a flight of stairs when I can just just dump a 1/2 scoop of powder in a bucket and call it a day.

I also trust a full soak over a spritz anyday
I soak parts in a small bowl. I spritz the larger items or pour a little in and swirl it. You don't need to submerge everything. As I said my $16 ounce bottle of Starsan was about $12 when I bought it and it lasted 7 1/2 years. My current 32 ounce bottle I expect will last until 2033. I am never lugging 5 gallons around.

Call it what you will but the proof is in the pudding. Two years running, probably longer without a single infection using it to clean visibly infected buckets and then reusing those buckets tells me it works....and no I wont be sending my $10 bucket to the lab.

Two plus years without issue is a long enough test period to prove it works. Odds are in my favor the "Yet" wont happen
It is pretty much consensus here that you are not truly sanitizing. And that you ARE lucky that you have not had infections.

But, if it works - keep at it. I just wouldn't recommend it as an alternative to using a real sanitizer. The next person might not be so lucky.
 
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JONNYROTTEN

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I soak parts in a small bowl. I spritz the larger items or pour a little in and swirl it. You don't need to submerge everything. As I said my $16 ounce bottle of Starsan was about $12 when I bought it and it lasted 7 1/2 years. My current 32 ounce bottle I expect will last until 2033. I am never lugging 5 gallons around.



It is pretty much consensus here that you are not truly sanitizing. And that you ARE lucky that you have not had infections
C'mon now. Two plus years with no infections is more than luck. Again some of my buckets were visibly infected...it works as a sanitizer/disinfectant/fresh maker...whatever you want to label it....it works WITHOUT luck
 

RPh_Guy

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The "lucky" part comes from not getting a significant contamination from rinsing with non-sanitary water afterwards.

Anyone else here might have some nasty microbes lurking in the faucet or hose. Then we'd get a contamination no matter how well the oxyclean sanitized it before rising.

Your results don't automatically apply to anyone else and it would be unwise to risk skipping sanitizer when no-rinse sanitizers are cheap, easy, and effective.

I've seen multiple threads here showing that brewers using only peroxide-based cleansers do get contaminations. Our objections aren't just theoretical.
 
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Carolina_Matt

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If it works for Jonny, I'd recommend that he sticks with it. Odds of an infection on any batch are pretty low, even if you don't use any product stronger than water. It's a matter of doing what works for you. Jonny has his process that works for him - and that's great!

I sort of do the opposite. I have a full container of PBW and Oxiclean, and I haven't touched them for the better part of a year. I used them to clean out kegs when I bought my kegerator last January, but I've barely used them since.

I bought a 32 ounce bottle of Star San about a year ago, and it's almost entirely full. I use a few milliliters in my spray bottle and use that on brew days. I don't worry too much about anything during the boil. When the wort is cooled, I spray my fermenter with Star San and then pour in the wort. If I put anything in the cooled wort (such as the Wine Thief, or placing the hydrometer directly into the bucket) I'll spray it with Star San beforehand. When it's time to keg, I spray the keg with Star San as well as the hose that I use to siphon the beer into the keg. I spray the lid of the keg before putting it on. That's about the extent of it.

Then I rinse off the fermenter and pour the 1/2 gallon of junk into the toilet bowl, making sure that there's no crusty's left behind. Then it goes into the garage until my next brew day.

If I did forget to clean the fermenter when I was done with it, I would definitely give it a good soak before reusing it. But I typically give it a strong rinse as soon as I'm done with it.
 

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I'm 70 years old, had chickenpox as a child, and haven't gotten shingles yet. Does that mean I won't in the future? Answer that question and you'll see where the skepticism you're seeing here is rooted.

If your cleaning/sanitizing routine works for you, that's all well and fine. What is not fine is posting it as being an accepted method, in a public forum, where people with little or no knowledge of proper cleaning and sanitizing may come for information. Their brewing environment may have wild yeasts and/or bacteria that yours doesn't.

Are you comfortable being responsible for any infected batches they may have due to improper sanitizing when using your method?
 

lump42

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C'mon now. Two plus years with no infections is more than luck. Again some of my buckets were visibly infected...it works as a sanitizer/disinfectant/fresh maker...whatever you want to label it....it works WITHOUT luck
Oxyclean most definitely has sanitizing properties. I believe the active ingredient is the same or similar as One-Step, which the manufacture has even said could be a sanitizer if they could justify the cost of labeling with the EPA. I've heard and read multiple times that theoretically if you cleaned well enough that there would be no need to use a sanitizer. Sounds like you have your cleaning regime down packed. I see no problem with your cleaning/sanitizing route. Keep up the good work :mug:

I see the no-rinse sanitizers as an extra safety net. In my mind the cleaning process is set in layer. I use a soft microfiber cloth and hot water to clean everything, to catch what I missed by hand I use oxyclean, and to catch what the oxyclean missed, I use starsan. I also use star-san for the peace of mind to remove dust and bacteria from cleaned equipment that's been sitting for awhile. Since it's no rinse I spray and go. It's just my peace of mind.
 

beerlover77

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I'm officially convinced EVERYTHING on this site is controversial

Why do you BIAB...Why do you three vessel
Why do you no chill...why dont you
Why do you hopstand...why do you FO....everything LOL

I have a family member that argues over everything. He calls it a debate....everybody else calls it and argument
I agree that a lot of folks seem to think there is only one way to do things which is bogus.
I don't think anyone should be telling you that you HAVE to use certain methods as there are different ways to accomplish everything safely and effectively.

Officially Oxyclean is considered a cleaner and Starsan a sanatizer. Oxy is great for soaking your equipment to clean things and get the gunk off (and im sure it limits microbes to safe levels as well).

The problem lies when a person doesn't have access to sanitary water for rinsing, in this case boiled water or a no-rinse sanitizer should be used. I use Star San anyways as the final rinse because it has worked for me with no infections so far:rock: and I won't take any chances.
If your water is safe to rinse with then that is great and Oxy may very well be the only product you will need.

I will say this.. commercial breweries use lots and lots of sanitizer, my local microbrewery uses peroxide solution (I think) and lots of very hot water to wash things down with.
 

Rev2010

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People are so ingrained with they way they do things its like I killed their baby
I think it's just not as reasonable to some. For example, I clean everything once the beer is in the fermenter. I then don't usually brew until the next weekend the earliest. Sometimes there's a couple of weeks between brewdays. Should I assume that my fermenter, stirring spoon (to quicken cooling), tubing, strainer, and basically every piece of gear that touches the wort after boiling has remained sanitized? Also what about any hands/surfaces/other things that those items may contact, I absolutely cannot guarantee they are all sanitized. Sanitizing on the fly covers all that concern.


Rev.
 

satph

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I have a copy of The New Joy of Homebrewing from 1984. It recommends sanitizing with a bleach solution and rinsing, as Starsan wasn't available back then. Oxyclean contains hydrogen peroxide, which is an antiseptic. So it seams to reason that it would work as a rinse sanitizer. Jonnyrotten has confirmed this over his past 2 years of brewing. I don't think it's luck that has kept him infection free.

Others have pointed out that Starsan can be reused. It can be made in small batches and kept in a spray bottle. And most importantly, it's no rinse.

Messing with bleach and rinsing was to me the worst part of homebrewing in the old days. I don't think I would have gotten back into it without no-rinse sanitizers. I hadn't really thought of the sanitizing properties of Oxyclean. I'm personally going to stick with my Starsan, but thanks for posting your experience.
 
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JONNYROTTEN

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This simple thread has gotten crazy....so I'll add some craziness.

I read a few years back on THIS site that someone from another country like New Zealand or Poland or wherever it was I cant remember said they have no Star San IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY and everyone uses Oxiclean without issue. It was a "debate" thread about is it a sanitizer.

If it works for an entire country...I'm comfortable saying my 2 year test is conclusive....it works

To be clear the only infections I have gotten was before I started using Oxiclean and was spritzing my stuff with Star San,,,good chance that will offend somebody
 

AZCoolerBrewer

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Following consensus is a great way to be successful at any endeavor. It is one of the preferred methods of obtaining knowledge in epistemology when confronted with semi-reliable sources. For sanitation, I clean with Oxyclean Free and rinse with Starsan. I diverge from convention by following the Starsan directions and allow it to air dry. I think that most tap water in the U.S. and other developed nations is required by law to be sanitary, so rinsing with it is probably just fine. I agree that a hose could end up having bacteria because it sits around with standing water open to the outdoor elements, but a faucet that is used often would likely have very low loads of bacteria that can cause problems. I think where people run into problems, is when they are doing something that is unsanitary and that they are also unaware they are doing it. Clearly, Johnnyrotten’s process has been successful until now, so he is doing what he needs to do. Each of is does things our own way based on our own judgement. Beginning brewers will read up and make their own choices. Having options is a good thing. We all have goals and resources that differ so being able to choose our own path is critical to achieving our personal goals. A diverse community is a strong one. Sure certain practices can rub people the wrong way. Personally, LODO triggers me, but I will never go so far to say that because it’s not commonly practiced by most brewers that no one should do it.
 

Rev2010

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but a faucet that is used often would likely have very low loads of bacteria that can cause problems.
Ever take your finger and rub the aerator screen under the faucet and find black mold on your finger? Want a more interesting experience, remove the aerator and separate out the plastic part with the screen. More than likely to find black mold in there on the vast majority of kitchen faucets. Not necessarily saying I think that presence is bad enough to cause infection - just stating the obvious that it often is there. :)


Rev.
 

AZCoolerBrewer

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Ever take your finger and rub the aerator screen under the faucet and find black mold on your finger? Want a more interesting experience, remove the aerator and separate out the plastic part with the screen. More than likely to find black mold in there on the vast majority of kitchen faucets. Not necessarily saying I think that presence is bad enough to cause infection - just stating the obvious that it often is there. :)


Rev.
I think that manganese mold is probably not a species that could survive in beer.

On a side note, I’ve had a thin ring of slime buildup in my auto syphon that came loose soaking in Oxyclean and then got soaked in sanitizer. I noticed the slime after I racked my wort into the fermentors and was pretty distressed. I suspect that the film in there was probably yeast from bottling, so I didn’t get a real infection when I used the syphon for wort, but now I take it apart as much as I can and pump a lot of cleaner and sanitizer through it. It’s those little things that don’t occur to you that get you I think.
 

Druman07

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I use one step exclusively, which i believe is not marketed as a sanitizer, with very good results. I use oxi clean for all cleaning before using 1 step, and its very effective in cleaning plastic parts such as a hose that is all gunked up with krausen. One thing I am not sure about, what is the shelf life of One Step once it is mixed in water? Typically I mix it on brew day, and reserve some in a spray bottle, which i use a couple days later to spray my airlock after i remove the blow off tube. However, I wonder if the One Step is still effective after say 4 days.
 

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For me it was not the idea that Oxyclean works, rather the claim that one person not getting an infection for 2 years was "proof"
that others don't need anything else.

Then there was the mention of the cost of sanitizer. If you compare that to just Oxyclean it is far cheaper to sanitize. That is if you DON'T make 5 gallons each time to soak all your equipment. In the time that I used one bottle of Starsan at about $15, I have used at least 10 tubs of Oxyclean at about $7 - $9. If I didn't sanitize, I would have used quite a bit more Oxyclean.
 
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JONNYROTTEN

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For me it was not the idea that Oxyclean works, rather the claim that one person not getting an infection for 2 years was "proof"
that others don't need anything else.
.
Yes 2 years is proof it works...what does it take to convince someone...5 years ...10 years...20 years

I ask you, Whats the threshold before you believes it works
 

kh54s10

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Yes 2 years is proof it works...what does it take to convince someone...5 years ...10 years...20 years

I ask you, Whats the threshold before you believes it works
Maybe several thousand people saying the same thing. Also the lack of people posting that they, in fact, did get infections despite using Oxyclean with or without Starsan. It seem you made a blanket statement that the majority of the responses here dispute.

Added: Or something from the makers of Oxyclean stating that it can in fact be used as a sanitizer and that the item will still be sanitized after rinsing.
 
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JONNYROTTEN

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Maybe several thousand people saying the same thing.
What are several thousand people saying...that it doesnt work? I'd dispute that too. I used it and nothing else for two years....gunna tell me it doesn't get the job done...I dont think so.

I've gotten infections before using Oxiclean so clearly I must have air born bacteria and poor water as someone mentioned....yet somehow after using Oxiclean all that went away...I'd love to hear how that means it doesn't sanitize when I'm still using the same equipment that was infected without out issue

Several thousand people thought the world was flat...what happened there
 

Blazinlow86

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What are several thousand people saying...that it doesnt work? I'd dispute that too. I used it and nothing else for two years....gunna tell me it doesn't get the job done...I dont think so.

I've gotten infections before using Oxiclean so clearly I must have air born bacteria and poor water as someone mentioned....yet somehow after using Oxiclean all that went away...I'd love to hear how that means it doesn't sanitize when I'm still using the same equipment that was infected without out issue

Several thousand people thought the world was flat...what happened there
This really isn't that hard to understand. Rinsing something after its been sanitized with something that is not sanitary *could* cause a infection and defeats the point of sanitizing it in the first place. That's it. Don't overthink it. In your case it hasn't. cheers
 
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