Overwhelmed....

[Ponduke]

I need a little help here. Little bit of hand holding I'm afraid. I'm a total nOOb with a grand total of one batch of a kit+kilo under his belt, and have been reading in preparation for my second batch for many many hours now. Yikes! I know I need to RDWHAHB and all that, but there really is a lot to know.

I'm kind of obsessive about stuff and now that I've found this hobby I want to become knowledgeable in all aspects of it. I listen to brewing podcasts, read this site incessantly, read books, etc. But now, I’m a bit overwhelmed.

I'm going to brew my next batch this Sunday hopefully. I'm looking to make an Irish Red style beer, like Jamil's Red Rocket clone of something similar and here's my problem; after all I've read and studied I still don't know enough to feel comfortable about the entire process. (yes, I've searched the threads but still don't have, or simply missed the answers I need) For example, I'm planning a full boil, with 30qt turkey fryer, (I have an immersion chiller). All the recipes I find have something about them that's I need to convert or somehow account for and I know nothing about the brewing software out there, like Beersmith, as I haven't yet gotten that far in my self-education.

Jamil's recipe for example seems to be a full-boil recipe, but there are no step by step instructions, and I'm not certain of all the steps. He has some hops added at 0 minutes of the boil. What's that all about? Turn off flame and add the hops? For how long? etc. Other recipes I find have step by step instructions for a nOOb like me, but seem to all be partial boils and I hear switching to full boil screws up hops utilization when following partial boil recipes, maybe I should add most of my extract late, maybe I shouldn’t, etc. Just too much uncertainness and it’s making me antsy!

I know there's a lot of experimentation involved in home brewing, but right out of the gate, for a nOOb like me, it would be nice to have an easy to follow recipe for an extract with grain steeping, full boil, 5 gallon Irish red recipe. I know it's asking a lot but can anyone help me out here? Maybe what I'm after is out there and someone could direct me to it, or maybe someone could explain Jamil's Red Rocket recipe in more detail for me and any other beginner wanting to make their first good batch without a minimal amount of stress.

Thanks in advance for any help!
Brian

 

[ohiobrewtus]

I'm kind of obsessive about stuff and now that I've found this hobby I want to become knowledgeable in all aspects of it. I listen to brewing podcasts, read this site incessantly, read books, etc. But now, I’m a bit overwhelmed.

We've all been there, you'll be fine.

Jamil's recipe for example seems to be a full-boil recipe, but there are no step by step instructions, and I'm not certain of all the steps. He has some hops added at 0 minutes of the boil. What's that all about? Turn off flame and add the hops? For how long? etc.

You got it. Toss them in then proceed to chilling.

Other recipes I find have step by step instructions for a nOOb like me, but seem to all be partial boils and I hear switching to full boil screws up hops utilization when following partial boil recipes, maybe I should add most of my extract late, maybe I shouldn’t, etc. Just too much uncertainness and it’s making me antsy!

I wouldn't say that it 'screws up' hop utilization, but it certainly changes it. Basically, the longer you boil hops the more bitterness you are going to extract from them.

You can add all of your extract in the last 15 minutes. I actually recommend it. When I was doing extract and PM's I always did it that way.

I know there's a lot of experimentation involved in home brewing, but right out of the gate, for a nOOb like me, it would be nice to have an easy to follow recipe for an extract with grain steeping, full boil, 5 gallon Irish red recipe. I know it's asking a lot but can anyone help me out here? Maybe what I'm after is out there and someone could direct me to it, or maybe someone could explain Jamil's Red Rocket recipe in more detail for me and any other beginner wanting to make their first good batch without a minimal amount of stress.

Thanks in advance for any help!
Brian

Are you doing AG or preparing to go AG? If not, I'm not sure what benefit there is to doing a full boil PM other than gaining the experience of doing a full boil. You just end up using more propane and more water than you would have doing a partial boil.

At any rate, if I were doing a full boil with extract I would use the full amount of water required to achieve your desired amount after boil off (this will usually be between 5.75-6.5 gallons for a 5 gallon batch), add your steeping grains (adjust the amounts based on how much you increased the amount of water that you used), then bring it to a boil, make hop additions as normal, add extract in the last 15, put your wort chille rin the boil at 15 left in the boil to sanitize it, then chill and pitch.

If you post the recipe I could run it though BeerSmith for you.

 

[Brooklyn-Brewtality]

If you post the recipe I could run it though BeerSmith for you.

i was about to offer to do the same

 

[Ponduke]

Thanks for the quick reply.

I've read several times that a full boil gives you a better beer in general even when doing extract recipes. Is this not true in your opinion?

Here's one recipe, the Red Rocket clone, but it's for 6 gallon and I only have a 5 gallon fermentor and have no idea how to convert it over. Any help there? Also mentions an Igloo cooler for equipment needed but I was wanting to just steep the specialty grains in the brew pot. But with how much water, etc. Also, I didn't think the specialty grain bill would increase for full boil verses partial boil, is that not the case? Sigh...too many questions.

The recipe looks good but there are a lot of ingredients and I've seen some simpler ones out there. I'd like to keep the costs down as much as possible but still want a good beer. any suggestions?

JZ Amber - Extract - Red Rocket Clone
American Amber Ale

Type: Extract Date: 3/12/2007
Batch Size: 6.00 gal Brewer: Jamil
Boil Size: 8.08 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 90 min Equipment: Brew Pot (30 Qt) and Igloo Cooler (10 Gal)
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: -
Taste Notes:

Ingredients
Amount Item Type % or IBU
8 lbs 12.0 oz LME Pale (Alexander's) (0.0 SRM) Extract 75.17 %
11.2 oz LME Munich (4.0 SRM) Extract 6.01 %
1 lbs Caramel Malt - 40L (Briess) (40.0 SRM) Grain 8.59 %
8.0 oz Caramel Malt - 120L (Briess) (120.0 SRM) Grain 4.30 %
8.0 oz Victory Malt (biscuit) (Briess) (28.0 SRM) Grain 4.30 %
3.0 oz Chocolate Malt (light) (200.0 SRM) Grain 1.63 %
1.10 oz Horizon [13.00 %] (60 min) Hops 41.2 IBU
1.00 oz Centennial [9.00 %] (10 min) Hops 9.4 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [6.00 %] (10 min) Hops 6.3 IBU
1.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] (0 min) Hops -
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (0 min) Hops -
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) Yeast-Ale
1 Pkgs California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) Yeast-Ale
1 Pkgs SafAle US-05 (Fermentis #US-05) Yeast-Ale


Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.062 SG Measured Original Gravity: 1.067 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.015 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.015 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6.12 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 6.79 %
Bitterness: 56.9 IBU Calories: 302 cal/pint
Est Color: 13.9 SRM Color:
Color


Mash Profile
Mash Name: None Total Grain Weight: 15.44 lb
Sparge Water: - Grain Temperature: -
Sparge Temperature: - TunTemperature: -
Adjust Temp for Equipment: FALSE Mash PH: -

Steep grains as desired (30-60 minutes)

Mash Notes: -
Carbonation and Storage
Carbonation Type: Corn Sugar Volumes of CO2: 2.5
Pressure/Weight: 4.9 oz Carbonation Used: -
Keg/Bottling Temperature: 60.0 F Age for: 28.0 days
Storage Temperature: 52.0 F

Notes
3 yeast choices are given, Choose one.
Recipe from TBN Jamil Show 3/12/07

 

[oberon567]

OK, let me try to help you out a bit.

Yes, JZ's recipe is a full boil with a 90 minute boil. You really do not need to do a 90 minute boil with extract. Do not worry about this. This is why, however, that he starts with 8.08 gallons, so he can have 6 gallons at the end of his boil. (Of that 6, 5.5 gallons will go into the fermenting bucket - he is willing to give up 0.5 gallon during transfer, for the sake of clarity. JZ is also willing to lose another 0.5 gallon when bottling or kegging). You only need a 60 minute boil, which would mean reducing the amount of starting water. Boiling 8 gallons vigorously on a stove top will be pretty difficult.

Also, this recipe has a lot of hops. For your second brew, do not be concerned about hop utilization.

Here is what you want to be concerned with:

1. Your final wort, before you pitch your yeast, has an OG of approx. 1.062. If it is too high you can add top-off water until it gets where you want. If it is too low you can boil some DME in a small amount of water and add that. A few points on either side is no big deal, and if it is not way off I would not work too hard on this.
2. Make sure your hop additions and timings are on.

Let's look at JZ's Recipe:
8 lbs 12.0 oz LME Pale (Alexander's)
11.2 oz LME Munich
1 lbs Caramel Malt - 40L
8.0 oz Caramel Malt - 120L
8.0 oz Victory Malt (biscuit)
3.0 oz Chocolate Malt (light) (200.0 SRM)
1.10 oz Horizon [13.00 %] (60 min)
1.00 oz Centennial [9.00 %] (10 min)
1.00 oz Cascade [6.00 %] (10 min)
1.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] (0 min)
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (0 min)

OK, JZ's recipe has three elements: 1>Steeping Grains 2>LME 3>Hops. Let's look at one thing at a time.
1> Steeping Grains Put your Caramel, Victory and Chocolate malts, crushed, ina large grain bag. Bring your kettle water to about 160 - 170 degrees, and put the grain bag in, making sure you do not get any dough balls. Now put a lid on your kettle, turn off the heat, and leave it alone for about 45 minutes or so. When you add your grain it is going to reduce the temperature, and you will lose temperature as you leave it sit. the ideal temp for the actual steeping is between 150 - 160. Different temps will yield slightly different results, but insignificant ones with just steeping grains, so dont be concerned. If you want to check it after 20 minutes and it has dropped a whole lot throw your burner back on. You can also wrap a towel around your kettle to help insulate (make sure to remove before turning burner on again!). In any case, do not stress about this too much, if you are in the general range you will extract the necessary flavors and colors.

After the 45 minutes (or so) is up, lift our your grain bag and let it drain all the goodness out. You can squeeze it a little bit, but not too much... you're going to lose some liquid, and that's OK. If you want to you can rinse the grian bag off with some 170 water, but if you do this just make sure to calculate that amount in your total water volume.

it is essentially the same thing as making tea. Dont worry about it too much.

2> LME I think a late addition would be best. he is calling for almost 10 lbs. of LME. I would use about half of that for your full boil, and add the remainder for the last 15 minutes of the boil. All of the enzymatic conversion fo starches in already complete in extract, all you are really doing is evenly distributing it throughout the wort and sanitizing it. This will help your color and your hop utilization. However, if you decide this is one step too many then go ahead and use it all at the beginning of the boil, it will not be that big of a difference and some homebrewers never both with late addition and still make phenomenal beer.

3> Hops This is also pretty easy. Just match the timings that JZ offers. If your A% is different in your bittering hop, the Horizon, you may want to change the quantity to match the HBU (Home Bitterness Units - # oz. x AA%). If the AA% is different for your other hops dont worry, they arent in there long enough to have a significant impact on bitterness. Adding hops at 0 minutes is exactly what you assumed, you turn off your flame and throw them in, and leave them in until you wort is fully cooled and transferred into your fermenting vessel, at which point you should be removing all sediment and material from the wort, whether you are putting it through a strainer or you are whirl-pooling or whatever you are doing. I would recommend, especially if you're fermenting in a plastic bucket, that you get a nylon, 5 gallon paint strainer bag. These usually have elastic tops, and you can put it right in your bucket, pour your wort right into it, and then pull it out and get a lot of the sediment that way.

Hopefully that helps. Nothing is definitive. If I were you I would start with about 6 gallons or so of water, planning to lose some to the steeping grains and then making up for it afterwards with top off water if need be. I would use half of the LME in the beginning and the other half for the final 15 minutes. (And you add your LME after you have finished steeping). I would only boil for 60 minutes, long enough to let my hops do their thing but not longer. I would use a large paint straining bag when transferring from boil kettle to fermenting bucket. I would put the bucket in an ice bath loosely covered with sanitized aluminum foil for about 24 hours, continuously replacing the ice, until the wort temperature was less than 70, at which point I would pitch my yeast. I would use one of the liquid yeasts. You can build a yeast starter, but if you don't want additional stress I would not do it for this batch. And, of course, I would probably drink 3 - 4 beers throughout the process, and then an additional one in celebration.

Have fun!!!!

edit
It took me so long typing that everyone beat me to the punch!

 

[BierMuncher]

OK, let me try to help you out a bit....

A little bit???

Holy cow dude...that's a full dissertation. Nicely done.

and this is why HBT rules... :rockin:

 

[Ponduke]

Holy Cow is right!!! Thanks a ton for that oberon! You rock! I can't wait till Sunday!

I will be fermenting in a 5 gallon glass carboy w/ blow off tube by the way, and as mentioned earlier I need to end up with 5 gallons instead of the 5.5 or 6. I feel like I'm now pretty much confident enough to go for it, except for that one bit. Adjusting the ingredients for a five gallon batch. Maybe I should do it as is and full the carboy and "gasp!" dump what I can't fit in it?

 

[Brooklyn-Brewtality]

A little bit???

Holy cow dude...that's a full dissertation. Nicely done.

and this is why HBT rules... :rockin:

SERIOUSLY! nice write up, oberon.

 

[Ponduke]

I would put the bucket in an ice bath loosely covered with sanitized aluminum foil for about 24 hours, continuously replacing the ice, until the wort temperature was less than 70, at which point I would pitch my yeast.

This I wonder about. 24 hours? If my chiller gets me down to 75 or so and I go ahead and pitch, I guess that's too hot for a good fermentation? I plan on putting the carboy in a fridge that holds about 58 degrees (can't set it any warmer than that) immediately after pitching and perhaps using a brew belt to bring it up to good ferment temps. if I shouldn't pitch above 70 couldn't I put it in the fridge until I get there? Does it really take 24 hours.

I'm also not clear what your doing with the foil, covering the bucket? Why not the lid, or in my case a bung w/ airlock?

One last thing? you mentioned watch for dough balls with the grain bag and that's a new one on me. What is that?

Told you I was a nOOb!

 

[Rick500]

I use the icewater bath method for cooling my partial boil batches, and generally get to 75 or so in under 45 minutes, then transfer to a carboy and add water, aerate, and pitch.

 

[Yooper]

Good write up, thanks! The only thing I would suggest is to NOT add the LME late. Add it all at the beginning. Since it's a full boil, there is no advantage for adding it late, and no reason to. The recipe assumes a full boil regular addition, I think.

I don't understand the question another poster had about chilling the wort in the fridge, and then heating it up. The way to do it is to chill the wort as fast as possible to pitching temperatures- and without a wort chiller, an ice bath will do in a pinch. Once the wort is below 70 degrees, the yeast can be pitched. It takes a long time to change the temperature of 5 gallons of wort, but with an ice water bath (maybe add some salt to it), and adding more ice to it, it can be done in an hour.

 

[homebrewer_99]

Yooper beat me to it this time...I was going to add that a late addition is not needed with a full boil, besides, it's a red...

Great write-up!

 

[Ponduke]

I don't understand the question another poster had about chilling the wort in the fridge, and then heating it up. The way to do it is to chill the wort as fast as possible to pitching temperatures- and without a wort chiller, an ice bath will do in a pinch. Once the wort is below 70 degrees, the yeast can be pitched. It takes a long time to change the temperature of 5 gallons of wort, but with an ice water bath (maybe add some salt to it), and adding more ice to it, it can be done in an hour.

I was trying to say that I have a work chiller so I should be able to get my temps down to 75 or so, or maybe more, I don't know. I was just thinking if my chiller didn't get it low enough I could put it in my fridge to finish up the cooling, but my fridge will get no warmer than 58 degrees or so, and I wanted to ferment in that fridge as well. I figured 58 might be good to cool the wort, but too cool for a good ferment after it has cooled, hence the brew belt idea. Any problem with this idea or would I be better off with a water tub with a t-shirt wick and fan in my bathtub, where the ambient is a constant 75 degrees? (wife won't let me turn the AC down more than that!)

Another idea is to use a tub of water sitting in my bathtub with the carboy in that, and set my bath tub faucet at a constant slow flow into the carboy tub allowing it to overflow into the bathtub drain. (I'm on a well so the water is free except the electric to run the pump.) That way I'm always refreshing the tub the carboy is sitting in with cool well water. Which do you all think is my best bet? At least until I get a temp comtroller for my chest freezer.

 

[Brooklyn-Brewtality]

i use a Swamp Cooler, which is just a bucket filled with water, and my carboy covering in a wet t-shirt. Once a day I swap out a bottle of frozen water in the bucket. the frozen bottle chills the water and the water chills the carboy. My garage ambient can reach 85+ during a hot day, but my carboy never breaks 68. Its cheap and easy

 

[ohiobrewtus]

oberon567, that may just be one of the most informative, all time best responses to a post in the beginner section that I've seen since I've been a member.

Thank you for taking the time to post that. Like BM said, it's things like your post that make HBT such an incredible resource for anyone getting into homebrewing.

 

[oberon567]

Thanks for the props, folks. I tend to be verbose. And I know that the more detailed people were explaining things to me made things so much easier.

RE - Cooling - I didnt realize you had a wort chiller. Yes, use that. Once you have gotten it as cold as you can using that, if it is still above 70, use an ice bath or go ahead and put it in the fridge.

I use loose aluminum foil during cooling because I wouldnt want to leave it open, bacteria and yeast settle downward so it will still keep them out, oxygenation is not a concern, and, and this is especially true if youre trying to go from 150+ down, as heat rises I feel like putting on a sealed plastic lid traps in heat and makes things just take longer. Maybe I am wrong, but thats my impression.

It usually takes me about 8 - 12 hours to get it down using an ice bath - probably because I dont change the ice as often as I should. If you can get it quicker that is great. the reason I said 24 hours is because as long as it is covered the wort should be fine, and pitching under 70 is going to have a big effect on your beer, so it is worth waiting the extra time.

As for how you ferment: The Brew Belt really requires a temp. controller as well, so that probably wont work too well. I wouldn't do the constant water flow thing either, seems unnecessary. I would put it in an ice bath with the t-shirt and an oscillating fan. That will take be your best bet, I think. Remember that fermentation is an exothermic process, it creates heat. So you need to measure the temp of your beer, not the ambient temperature, because they will not be the same.

Oh, and a doughball is when you dough in (add your grains to water during mash/steeping) and you get a clump of dry grains in the center. You avoid them by stirring, pouring slowly, etc.

 

[DaleJ]

Where do you live Ponduke?
Maybe there is someone nearby who can help you on Sunday...
If nothing else, to be there for moral support.

 

[Ponduke]

Thank you once again oberon! You're instructions are about as well thought out and clear as any I've seen. I'm fully confident now and am looking toward my first real batch of beer!


and DaleJ, I'll be brewing this up in southern Indiana, but it'll be during a large family function with all kinds of craziness going on all around me, and I'll also be smoking two 12 lb. beef briskets at the same time. Not the best situation for tackling such an involved recipe, for me at least, but I gotta grab the time wherever I can, and that's a time I can. I also got another couple of friends that'll be there for the moral support and to help me drink a few while I'm at it.

 

[oberon567]

Glad I could help. Be sure to let us know how your brew day turns out!

 

[Ponduke]

OK Last question I promise! I can only boil about 6 to 6.5 gallons max. in my brew pot, and can only end up with 5 gallon of wort max. due to my carboy being 5 gallon. So is there any issue with the fact that Jamil is starting with an 8.08 gallon boil and ending up with 6 gallon, whereas I’ll start with 6 or so and end up with 5? Does this affect the recipe? Should I reduce the LME or any other ingredients, or just follow it exactly and check the OG, and adjust accordingly as mentioned earlier?

 

[devaspawn]

I would say with careful heat control and constant monitoring at hot break you could get away with boiling at 7 gallons. Your hop utilization won't be as high with the lower boil volume but not enough to drastically effect the taste. Just use the ingredients as is. It won't be dead on but it will be darn close.

I hope you have a blowoff tube for that 5 gallon carboy.

 

[oberon567]

I am at work right now, but I can throw this into Beersmith when I get home and give you exact numbers.

How are you transferring from boil kettle to carboy?

If your boil kettle has a spigot then I would aim for 5.5 gallons at the end of your boil, so you can leave some in the bottom after chilling along with any hop material and proteins that may fall out when you chill it. (Also, in this instance, it might be helpful to do a whirlpool effect as best you can while chilling and before you transfer, it helps all of the sediment collect in a cone in the center of the kettle).

If your boil kettle does not have a spigot and you are just going to pour the whole thing from one container to the other then you would aim for 5 gallons at the end of boil and then pour the whole thing and strain it.

 

[Ponduke]

All right, I lied. That wasn't my last question. Sigh...I just got off the phone with my LHBS and found that he doesn't have some key ingredients I need to pull this off. The list of no-shows is as follows.

(Keep in mind I'm not really worried about hitting Jamil's recipe exactly, I'm more concerned with making a really good amber beer in the general spirit of this recipe.)

No Munich LME, (he has Munich in grain form so could I could possibly steep a pound of that with my other specialty grains and get close enough?)
He has caramel malt 40L but no 120L, he does have 80L however. Maybe just substitute straight up?
He has dark chocolate malt instead of light.

Now on to the hops and the lack thereof;

No Horizon (or the possible substitute Magnum I found on a hop sub chart)
No Centennial (or possible subs Summit, Amarillo, Columbus)
He does have Cascade.
Last time I was there I saw he had probably 15 or so different hops, Kent golding, Fuggles, and so forth, but he said the he has little in the way of high Alpha hops.

So, I've already gotten more help than I deserve, and feel bad asking for more, but I just gotta! What would any of you recommend I do with what I have available? In the future I'll order these things online, but for now I HAVE to brew this weekend. I know it'll no longer be a Red Rocket clone, but that's OK.

Anyway thanks to you all for your time, and I plan on becoming a paying member of this forum soon because I've already gotten my money's worth!


EDIT: no spigot on kettle, just pouring in, through a strainer and funnel. Thanks again for the help!

 

[devaspawn]

Go with Pale LME in place of the Munich LME. You could steep a lb of the grain I suppose. Do the 80 L crystal and maybe add a 1/4 lb of special B. That will help add color to it.

I don't have much in the way of help for hop substitutions.

 

[oberon567]

OK, first, the recipe scaled for a 5 gallon batch:

Batch Size 5 gallons
Boil Size 6.34 gallons
60 Minute Boil
7.29 lb Pale Liquid Extract (8.0 SRM) Extract 75.2 %
0.58 lb Munich Liquid Extract (4.0 SRM) Extract 5.9 %
0.83 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 8.6 %
0.42 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 4.3 %
0.42 lb Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 4.3 %
0.17 lb Chocolate Malt (200.0 SRM) Grain 1.7 %
0.92 oz Horizon [13.00%] (60 min) Hops 53.4 IBU
0.83 oz Centennial [9.00%] (10 min) Hops 6.7 IBU
0.83 oz Cascade [6.00%] (10 min) Hops 4.5 IBU
0.83 oz Cascade [6.00%] (0 min) Hops -
0.83 oz Centennial [9.00%] (0 min) Hops -

A few things I realized when putting this in BeerSmith, as well as thoughts regarding your ingredient dilemma:
1.) +1 on Using Pale LME and steeping some Munich Malt.
2.) Use the highest Crystal he has in place of the 120, no stresses. And I personally wouldnt add the Special B, as you are already looking at a pretty amber color.
3.) His dark chocolate malt is probably 450 L. Just cut the amount in half and don't worry.
4.) Victory Malt does not convert itself. Which means it needs to be mini-mashed along with other grains. So you need to get some 2-row and put that into your steeping grains, make sure they steep between 150 - 160, and do the rinse I was talking about. Here is what I would do:

(For a 5 Gallon Batch)
The LME probably comes in 3.3 lb. containers, yes? Use two of those (6.6 lbs) and add 1 lb Pale 2 row to the mash. The easiest way to do this will be to use two kettles at once. It sounds like you have an outdoor heat source for your large kettle. Cool. I would put 5 gallons of water in that, and heat it to 180. In a smaller brewpot, on your stovetop, put about 2 gallons of water, and use those to mash the grains (in a large grain bag). Once you have mashed your grains for your 45 minutes, "tea-bag" the grain bag in the larger kettle that is already 180 for a minute or two, and then let it soak in there for an additional 10 - 15 minutes or so. Ideally keep it between 170 - 180 while you do this, but if your water heats slow enough you could just turn your heat on, it will not be in there long and there are not an excessively large amount of tanins to worry about. After the 15 minutes pull your grains out and let them drain, maybe squeeze them a little but not too much. Add the liquid from your other kettle, which is essentially your "first runnings," into your larger brewpot, add your LME, get it to a boil and proceed as normal. If more water was absorbed than I anticipated and you dont have about 6 gallons to start your boil with, just add some more. (A good way to measure is to make marks on your spoon, so you can stick it in the kettle and see where you're at).

It is not that much more difficult, and congratulations, you are officially doing a partial-mash brew instead of extract brew.

So your final Grain Bill will be as follows (simplifying some of the numbers to make it easier):

6.6lb Pale Liquid Extract
1lb Pale 2-Row
1lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L
0.5 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L
0.5 lb Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 4.3 %
0.75 lb Munich Malt
0.125 (1/8) lb Chocolate Malt (450L)

That will be a pretty good hybrid of JZ's recipe, and should turn out great. Now, the numbers and water:grain ratios are not perfect for what you would do in a full mash, but they should work out fine for you, I would imagine.

HOWEVER, on the hop note... I am not all that helpful. Sorry.

 

[Ponduke]

Man, oberon you just keep on giving! When I get some experience and knowledge under my belt, I plan on paying it forward and helping future nOObs wherever I can! I will about to give up and just go with some other recipe that seemed a bit easier but I will now proceed as planned, with one caveat of coarse, I still have the hops issue. I think I’ll just go with the hops schedule of another recipe, the Fat Tire clone specifically and be done with it, as my LHBS has those. They are as follows;

3 AAUs Willamette pellet hops (60 min) (0.66 oz. at 4.5% alpha acid)
1.33 AAUs Fuggle pellet hops (20 min)(0.33 oz. at 4% alpha acid)
2 AAUs Fuggle pellet hops (0 min) (0.50 oz. at 4% alpha acid)

I guess this would work all right? My only concern is this is much fewer AAU’s of hops and JZ’s recipe is a very hoppy beer, and in his podcast of this recipe he says that you need this hoppiness to balance out the sweetness of this wort. I like hops, but I like a malty beer too, I just hope this hop schedule provides me with some balance and gives me a beer that’s not overly sweet, Or cloing? Or something like that he said in the podcast. Should I hop it up some or will I get a good beer like I have it currently planned? Any and all suggestions are, as always, appreciated!

 

[Brooklyn-Brewtality]

If I was you, I would get whatever your LHBS has in terms of high AA hops. He must have something. 1 ounce of anything over 11% or 1.5-2 ounces of anything between 8-10% would work better than vastly under-bittering.

So, my hop schedule for you would be:

1-2 oz "High AA Hop" (60 min)
1 oz Cascade (10 min)
1 oz "High AA Hop" (10 min)
1 oz Cascade (0 min)
1 oz "High AA Hop" (10 min)

Just substitute whatever he has that has a decent amount of AA for both Horizon and Centennial

 

[Ponduke]

Cool! Sounds like a plan! I do believe I'm FINALLY set to brew some beer. I'll let you all know how it goes!

 

[oberon567]

Dont forget to have a great time!

 

[Ponduke]

Well, I had myself a fine brewing session Sunday afternoon. oberon, I again want to thank you for the advice, and it came in quite handy during the brew even though I ended up brewing a different beer. I printed out the thread and have put it in my log book for further reference as I still plan on making that big bold amber beer soon, but for this time, considering I didn’t have all the correct ingredients, I decided to go with a slightly less involved recipe, and will order all that I need to make the Red Rocket clone online ahead of time so I can truly follow the recipe without modifications. Also, as I was smoking about 25 pounds of beef brisket Sunday, and had about 35 people over for a Labor Day bash, and here in Southern Indiana the air was hot, and humid enough to chew, a less involved recipe was pretty appealing to me. Besides, I worked up the recipe myself with Beersmith! That's a pretty cool program I'm finding out. What I ended up brewing is as follows;

5 gallon, full boil

3.3 lbs. Light LME
3.0 lbs Light DME
4 oz. Corn Sugar
1/2 lb. Crystal 40L
1/2 lb. Crystal 80L
1 oz. Kent Golding Hops
Safale US-05 dry yeast

Steeped grains 45 min. in 5.75 gallon 165-160 degree water
Removed grain bag and brought water to a boil. Added hops and all DME and LME and Corn sugar.
Boiled for 1 hour, removed hop bag, and used immersion chiller to cool until brewpot was cool enough to handle. (about 10 minutes or so to get down to 85 degrees)
Poured wort into sanitized carboy through sanitized strainer and funnel, added solid bung and placed in ice water bath in house with black t-shirt over carboy to wick water and a fan for additional cooling, and joined the party out in my pole barn where folks were singing Karaoke and happily drinking my very first batch ever (brewed a month ago, a kit+kilo Muntons pre-hopped Bock LME kit) from the tap on my kegerator. My first 5 gallon keg of homebrew lasted all of 1 night! People seemed to like it all right! But it fermented in a 75 degree ambient room with no temp control whatsoever and it was a basic extract plus corn sugar kit! I thought it OK, but have much higher hopes on this second batch.

Anyway, the next morning I checked and the fermometer on the carboy read 68 degrees. I checked OG and it read 1053, Beersmith estimated 1053 so I was quite pleased with that! I then direct pitched one packet of Safale S-05 yeast, and affixed blow-off tube. By bedtime I had no activity, but the next morning it was working like mad, and yesterday when I returned home from work I was very glad I had used a blow off tube as it was blowing off just awesomely!! Also, I’m having no trouble at all holding it at 68 degrees with the water and the occasional frozen 2 liter bottle. I figure I'll let it set for 2 weeks or so then rack it directly to a corny, purge with CO2 and cold crash it in my kegerator for a couple days @ 35, then bring it up to around 60 to age in keg for another couple of weeks before I tap it.
Anyone see any problems with my plan or what I've done thus far? Also, does this recipe sound like it'll make a decent beer to you? Pretty basic recipe I know, but I wonder what characteristics I can expect. I know it'll not be very hoppy, and Beersmith says it'll be around 5% ABV. It looks like a brown/slightly amber color in the carboy.

If anyone has read this far, thanks for taking the time!

 

[oberon567]

Sounds like a success, I'm glad everything went so well!

I think your plan sounds just fine. You probably do not need to age too long... Your grain bill is not complex, you don't have a lot of flavors that need to mellow out or settle. Once you keg it and force carb it, go ahead and take a sample every few days... I bet you will see that you dont need to wait a few weeks.

The only part of your process that you might want to change is you might want to re-hydrate the dry yeast before pitching. It gives the cell walls of the yeast a chance to be healthy and happy and not overloaded with wort. Obviously your fermentation took off no problem, and it most often would continue to do so, but hypothetically if you rehydrate your yeast first then more of it will survive and be active and it will be less stressed and produce fewer esters or other off flavors. (No one ever told me this back when I was using dry yeast, and now I only use liquid, so I have no personal point of comparison).

Finally, as for what to expect. Well, the Pale LME and DME will not be producing exorbitant amount of flavor. Your 40 will give you some nice sweetness, and some caramel-y types of flavors, and the 80 will start giving you a few more of the raisiny, dark fruit flavors, though probably not the burnt raisin flavors that would be going along with 120.

Since you only put a 60 minute addition of hops they will not be imparting too much flavor, but the EKG will give a spicy, English ale type of bitterness, and any hop flavor or aroma that might come through will be in the vein of an English ale.

All in all, I think it will be a mighty good beer. Congratulations! Should I ever make my way to Indiana I will have to stop by for a pint!

And PS - Wow, your second batch, and you already have an immersion chiller and cornies and all the equipment needed for a full boil batch. That is impressive. I have been brewing for a while, granted living on a grad student's budget, and I am saving up to get me some cornies because I am still bottling and so ridiculously tired of it. Then, after that, will be saving up for an immersion chiller and then a larger brew pot. So a large kudos to you for starting off with the right equipment!

 

[Ponduke]

Thanks for the reply! I was hoping I didn't have to wait too long to drink it so that's great news. Especially since my kegerator is now empty once again!

As stated elsewhere, I've been very fortunate to have some friends and family who for one reason or another had some equipment they didn't need and wanted me to have. If I had needed to buy all the equipment I have I wouldn't yet be brewing beer but would instead be trying to save up.

For example, one friend bought 4 of the cornys, the chiller, the carboys, and the misc other stuff a couple of years back from some guy getting out of the hobby and then decided he didn't want to mess with it so offered the stuff to me for free. That's what got the ball rolling. Then my brother in law found out I was going to be homebrewing and offered me his kegerator that had been sitting empty in his garage for the last decade or so. It's still his and I'm just using it but that works just fine for me!

 

[oberon567]

That is pretty sweet.

If I were you, that empty kegerator would be a bother. I would brew something else right now, maybe an IPA that is going to take 10 days of dry hopping or something, to make sure it doesn't go empty again...

 

[Ponduke]

Excellent idea!!