Over carbonation woes

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mtnagel

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So I had my second bottle bomb in almost 4 years of brewing yesterday and it made me take a look at my bottled home brew and most are very over carbed (I checked by refrigerating, then slightly prying up the cap and many foam up and want to gush out). So now I’m going through the process of dumping some and releasing the pressure on others to try to salvage most of them, but avoid bottle bombs. I think my only option is to never trust these bottles and make sure they are stored in Rubbermaid totes just in case.

Everything I’ve read about carbonating in the bottle says I’m doing everything right. Make sure beer is done fermenting by taking multiple gravity readings (not all my early beers I did this, but definitely the latest). Using priming sugar calculator. Weighing appropriate amount of corn sugar. Adding water and nuking till boiling. Pour into bottling bucket. Adding beer on top and stirring gently to make sure it’s mixed. Storing at 68F minimum for 3 weeks minimum. Then storing at ~60F cellar or fridge as I want them.

Here are some of the over carbed ones I’ve had:

Belgian dubbel – 20 day primary; stable final gravity near what would be expected. Primed with NB priming sugar calculator to style. Stored at 68F for 3.5 weeks. Moved a few to fridge. After a couple days, it’s overcarbed. All bottles are overcarbed.

Imperial stout – 5 weeks primary, 5 weeks secondary then bottled. Stable final gravity near what would be expected. These are about a year and half old. Primed to 2.2 vol CO2. These are all over carbed.

Imperial stout – This beer is almost 2.5 years old now. 24 days primary; 3 months secondary. Added champagne yeast at bottling. This was a NB extract kit and this was before I was measuring the gravity. Don’t know how much sugar, but this was probably with 5 oz primary sugar. So I understand why this beer was always over carbed. But about a year ago, I put them all in the fridge and then slowly released the pressure until they didn’t immediately foam upon prying up the cap just a small amount. Then they were removed from the fridge for cellaring. These are now over carbed again. I know this would indicate an infection, but there is no sour taste. I follow all typical sanitation practices with starsan.

There are others, but they follow the same story. At this point I’m not sure what to do. I keg the vast majority of my batches and have never had an issue with those, but I’ve only have a 2 tap kegerator so I still want to bottle strong beers that are meant to age. And I’ve been enjoying doing 1 gal batches and it seems silly to keg those when it’s so simple to bottle 10 bottles (and I never have a free keg to keg them anyway).

Anyone have any thoughts as this is very frustrating?
 
Edit... I just noticed you are focusing on 1 gal batches, sorry I assumed you were dealing with 5gal batches ) :

You didn't mention how much priming sugar you are adding to each batch but I would assume it is in the neighborhood of 4oz per 5gal. I've struggled with under/carbing and over/carbing and sometimes it makes me think this technique is somewhat of a black art!

I get pretty consistent results using 4-4.5 oz priming sugar for a 5 to 5.75 gal batch of beer. But if I wasn't... I wouldn't be afraid of dropping the amount down to 3 - 3.5oz per batch just to see if it would improve the end product! The batches that I did have trouble with definitely had some residual sugars that I could taste but didn't pay attention to at the time. Lately I've begun to respect that taste tasting a lot more and if I let the beer sit on the primary another week or more it will dry out and sure enough the hydrometer shows it will drop another point or more. So be sure you are giving the yeast enough time in the primary to clean up ( ;

My process seems to work for me consistently but I should add that I make large starters for all my beers now. That is one improvement that I could recommend you look into if you are not doing it now. Making a larger than what you need starter also gives you the added benefit of having extra yeast to make another starter the next brew day!
 
Only the Belgian was a 1 gal batch. One of the stouts was a 3 gal and the other was a five gallon. Now I always have used a priming sugar calculator to calculate the exact amount needed. And I always weigh it on a scale. But the oldest stout I have, I probably didn't, so I get why that one may be over carbed, but I don't get why the carbonation level is increasing with time.

As for the yeast, the oldest stout, I used a portion of the yeast cake from a previous batch and calculated the amount of cells, so I should have pitched in the ballpark of the correct number of cells needed. All of my batches now, I either reuse yeast from the previous batch or create a large enough starter.
 
Sorry for your beer troubles.
You could have 2 things going on. 1. You mentioned over-carbonation. It would take way to much priming sugar or way under-fermented beer. Doesn't seem that is the story. 2. Infection. It seems more likely if you are fermenting until completion and weighing your priming sugar.
How much did you use on the 3 gallon batch? 2-3 ounces?
 
Are you measuring the final volume being bottled or just using the whole number of gallons when using the priming calculator? I overcarbed a batch of stout since I lost nearly a gallon to trub from the cocoa powder addition and had anticipated only losing my normal 0.2 gallons.
 
My guess is you are under attenuating. I was having the same issues primarily with Belgian and English yeasts. My American and German yeast brews were fine. Basically, the Belgian and English yeasts would stall at close to final gravity. Then when bottling, some oxygen and agitation would get them going again inside the bottles. This would result in overcarbonation. I solved it in following batches by pitching more healthy yeast and I switched to pure oxygen which has solved this for me.
 
Various styles have ranges for volumes of CO2, we always bottle at the low end of the range and work from there. The low end of the range works well with plenty of carbonation. oft' times we go lower than the range because there can sometimes be too much head and makes it difficult to pour. Also if you store beer for longer than a year then the yeasties have longer to work. We find that some brews get more and more carbonated over time even if the target FG was reached.

You might want to invest in some Grolsch fliptops, although they are green, they are virtually indestructible and can be used with any style. I have been using them for years. I have dropped more than a few and have never had one break or chip and have never had to replace the gaskets, just flip them over every once in awhile. Make sure you get the heavy green Grolsch bottles and not just any brown fliptop from the LHBS.
 
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Sorry for your beer troubles.
You could have 2 things going on. 1. You mentioned over-carbonation. It would take way to much priming sugar or way under-fermented beer. Doesn't seem that is the story. 2. Infection. It seems more likely if you are fermenting until completion and weighing your priming sugar.
How much did you use on the 3 gallon batch? 2-3 ounces?
My notes say, "55.6 g corn sugar for 2.8 gallons at 65F for 2.2 CO2 (wort volume was closer to 3 gallons)"

I know infection seems likely, but we're talking multiple batches over years with no sour taste at all. I've tasted infected batches at bars before. It's easily recognizable to me. And I feel I'm pretty good with my sanitation methods.

Are you measuring the final volume being bottled or just using the whole number of gallons when using the priming calculator? I overcarbed a batch of stout since I lost nearly a gallon to trub from the cocoa powder addition and had anticipated only losing my normal 0.2 gallons.
I do try to guesstimate how much I will lose to trub so I do subtract off some of the volume when entering in the priming sugar calculator. I've never been off by a gallon as far as I can remember.

A few batches, I did transfer the beer to the bottling bucket first, so that I could get an accurate volume and then I added the priming sugar solution, but I felt like I had to mix too much to ensure it was mixed it, so I went back to the normal method of adding the sugar to the bottling bucket and then transferring the beer on top so that it mixes while it transfers over. I will even mix the solution a little bit after just to try to really ensure everything is mixed well.

My guess is you are under attenuating. I was having the same issues primarily with Belgian and English yeasts. My American and German yeast brews were fine. Basically, the Belgian and English yeasts would stall at close to final gravity. Then when bottling, some oxygen and agitation would get them going again inside the bottles. This would result in overcarbonation. I solved it in following batches by pitching more healthy yeast and I switched to pure oxygen which has solved this for me.
I use American yeasts probably 90% of the time. This was my first Belgian yeast batch ever. I had 79% attenuation for my Belgian batch using 1214.

The 3 gal stout had 74% attenuation with (I'm assuming) S05. I didn't always record what yeast I used so I'm not 100% sure on that.

For a while now, I've been good about estimating the correct amount of yeast to use whether from reusing yeast or from a starter.

I did just switch to using O2 for my bigger batches, but these didn't use O2.

Various styles have ranges for volumes of CO2, we always bottle at the low end of the range and work from there. The low end of the range works well with plenty of carbonation. oft' times we go lower than the range because there can sometimes be too much head and makes it difficult to pour. Also if you store beer for longer than a year then the yeasties have longer to work. We find that some brews get more and more carbonated over time even if the target FG was reached.

You might want to invest in some Grolsch fliptops, although they are green, they are virtually indestructible and can be used with any style. I have been using them for years. I have dropped more than a few and have never had one break or chip and have never had to replace the gaskets, just flip them over every once in awhile. Make sure you get the heavy green Grolsch bottles and not just any brown fliptop from the LHBS.
Thanks for the info. Guess using less does make more sense on bigger beers I want to age.
 
So I was just doing some more research and I noticed that the Northern Brewer priming sugar calculator had 3.0 vol CO2 for a Belgian dubbel, but other things say 1.9-2.4. I know Belgian's are carbed higher, but that's a pretty big difference. Would carbing to 3.0 explain a beer that has so much carbonation that it almost bubbles up out of the bottle after opening?

That still doesn't explain the others though.
 
I bottle my dubbels at 1.9 volumes CO2 and they come out perfect using wlp530 and SG usually around 1.007. Be careful with belgians, I rarely bottle them in regular 12 oz brown bottles. When you buy them ($$$) they often come in champagne style bottles for a reason, the Grolsch fliptops are thick enough.

Just remember with green bottles, keep them in the dark because they allow light in which is bad for the beer (use closet, frig or a towel to keep 'em dark).

Check multiple websites because the style ranges vary quite a bit and the calculators can be misleading as well.

The stout with the champagne yeast is probably the yeast generating the CO2, these yeasts usually make things dry, so they chomp until nothing is left. maybe the reason why people use them to unstick fermentations.

2 volumes is about right for a stout but you could go down to 1.6 if it is a drier stout.
 
Why would the Northern Brewer kit have me add champange yeast if it could eat through the sugars that the S05 didn't eat? That seems like a terrible idea. I just assumed it wouldn't eat anything but the priming sugar. I guess it's possible the beer wasn't finished. That was before I measured gravity.

Still doesn't explain the stout where I got 74% attenuation and gravity didn't move over multiple readings and it spent 5 weeks in primary and 5 week in secondary. And I didn't add any other yeast. And I carbed to 2.2 vol CO2. Why is that one overcarbed?
 
Are you cold crashing before bottling?

Temperature needs to be taken into account as it effects the volume of CO2 already in the beer before bottle conditioning.
 
Have you calibrated your hydrometer recently? Maybe they are stalling out higher than you think they are.
 
here is a thread worth reading, t

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/champagne-yeast-beer-296505/

the champagne yeast is used for priming big stouts and the like but can also be used for drying out the brew, fixing flat beer after the fact, and dealing with higher abv.

since it was an imperial stout the champagne yeast helps carbonation, but if like you said, the original yeast wasn't viable enough and/or underpitched for the fermentation conditions {temperature, abv. pH etc...) then maybe the champagne yeast could also munch on simpler sugars that the original yeast couldn't handle in a high abv environment and then priming sugar is added and then boom. idk just a theory for you to chew on
 
Why would the Northern Brewer kit have me add champange yeast if it could eat through the sugars that the S05 didn't eat? That seems like a terrible idea. I just assumed it wouldn't eat anything but the priming sugar. I guess it's possible the beer wasn't finished. That was before I measured gravity.

Still doesn't explain the stout where I got 74% attenuation and gravity didn't move over multiple readings and it spent 5 weeks in primary and 5 week in secondary. And I didn't add any other yeast. And I carbed to 2.2 vol CO2. Why is that one overcarbed?

If you underpitched, had fermentation temps out of range, or lacked oxygen, your primary yeast may have pooped out; regardless of duration. Adding new sugars & and bottling creates a new ecosystem. Did you Cold Crash prior to bottling?
 
Are you cold crashing before bottling?

Temperature needs to be taken into account as it effects the volume of CO2 already in the beer before bottle conditioning.
No I don't.

Have you calibrated your hydrometer recently? Maybe they are stalling out higher than you think they are.
I use refractometer to make sure fermentation is finished with multiple consistent readings. I use calculator to convert to final gravity after alcohol is present. Haven't used my hydrometer in a while. I know you're going to say I use my hydrometer (and maybe I should confirm some), but the corrected final gravities with the refractometer have come out to what I would expect for the recipe, so I feel like using the conversion is good enough.

here is a thread worth reading, t

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/champagne-yeast-beer-296505/

the champagne yeast is used for priming big stouts and the like but can also be used for drying out the brew, fixing flat beer after the fact, and dealing with higher abv.

since it was an imperial stout the champagne yeast helps carbonation, but if like you said, the original yeast wasn't viable enough and/or underpitched for the fermentation conditions {temperature, abv. pH etc...) then maybe the champagne yeast could also munch on simpler sugars that the original yeast couldn't handle in a high abv environment and then priming sugar is added and then boom. idk just a theory for you to chew on
Thanks for the info.

If you underpitched, had fermentation temps out of range, or lacked oxygen, your primary yeast may have pooped out; regardless of duration. Adding new sugars & and bottling creates a new ecosystem. Did you Cold Crash prior to bottling?
Nope.
 
I find a refractometer hard to read with good accuracy - at least good enough for confirming fermentation is finished. I use a bottling hydrometer. It has hash marks every .0005 SG units, and they are far enough apart that I can read to the nearest .00025 units. I feel a lot better about the gravity being stable using this.
 
I use refractometer to make sure fermentation is finished with multiple consistent readings. I use calculator to convert to final gravity after alcohol is present. Haven't used my hydrometer in a while. I know you're going to say I use my hydrometer (and maybe I should confirm some), but the corrected final gravities with the refractometer have come out to what I would expect for the recipe, so I feel like using the conversion is good enough.
Something is off somewhere, and an elevated 'final' gravity can be a potential explanation for your problem. Your refractometer reading and subsequent conversion is probably correct, but it can't hurt to check with a hydrometer. Just because it matches your expected value doesn't necessarily mean it is accurate.

You've eliminated most of the other possibilities and I figured that this avenue might be worth exploring.
 
I find a refractometer hard to read with good accuracy - at least good enough for confirming fermentation is finished. I use a bottling hydrometer. It has hash marks every .0005 SG units, and they are far enough apart that I can read to the nearest .00025 units. I feel a lot better about the gravity being stable using this.
That's some pretty crazy resolution. Even if I can't read the number to that resolution, I feel like if the number hasn't moved 0.001 in a few days, then it's not going to move anymore.

Something is off somewhere, and an elevated 'final' gravity can be a potential explanation for your problem. Your refractometer reading and subsequent conversion is probably correct, but it can't hurt to check with a hydrometer. Just because it matches your expected value doesn't necessarily mean it is accurate.

You've eliminated most of the other possibilities and I figured that this avenue might be worth exploring.
Very true.
 
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